Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

I don't know why everyone keeps worrying about the poor family of four taking Blue 22. They won't. The service is not designed for them. The service is for particularly time-sensitive business travelers who value the convenience (and are willing to pay for it). For the rest of us, there will be the Eglinton and Finch LRTs and the Malton GO. The family of four is not going to pay $176. They would take a taxi or public transit. That would also be the case elsewhere in the world. I can't imagine a family of four heading out on an excursion fare from Heathrow, taking the Heathrow Express from Paddington. They would either cab, park and fly, take Heathrow Connect or the Tube...all of which would work out cheaper per person than taking Heathrow Express.

As many have pointed out this service will largely replace cabs which are normally expensed by the employer for most business travelers. So as long the Blue 22 fare+cab ride from Union to downtown hotel/office is equal or less than the cab fare from the airport to said downtown hotel/office there will be a solid market for the service. Seen from that perspective, they could probably get away with charging more than $30 for single riders.

The only competitive threat is taxi sharing which for two people probably comes in at only slightly less than $30 and offers a slower and less comfortable ride than a train (even if its a Budd RDC). The only passengers I could see them losing are those who would share 3 or more to a taxi (the noted family of four example) and those who would prefer to take the $17 airport shuttle bus service instead. However, these folks would lose out on productive time (train time with wifi = productivity), some degree of schedule certainty and speed. But more than likely they don't really care about that any way. How many traveling families would start their journey at Union anyway? And how many would need the degree of schedule certainty needed by business travelers or access to wi-fi en route? And how many business travelers would travel three to cab? I think Blue 22 has done probably done a decent job of analyzing the market and they will price their service according to what the market will bear. But this is not public transit and we should not expect it to be, anymore than we should expect taxis to start serving downtown-airport customers at public transit rates.
 
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The service is for particularly time-sensitive business travelers who value the convenience (and are willing to pay for it).

i think a private airport limo/taxi would be more convenient. you can get taken directly from point A to B without any worry about transferring between different modes of transportation. you may lose some time in traffic with a limo/taxi but you'd also lose time getting off the blue 22 at union station and then either using the subway, bus, PATH, a taxi, etc. to get to your destination. also, if you have to transfer from the airport people mover to blue 22, this would also add more time lost in transferring from one mode to another.

this is one of the reasons why i think blue 22 might end up being a failure. i just hope that in the event that blue 22 performs horribly, instead of perpetually subsidizing a failing service, they use the tracks for something more useful like a HRT public transportation service with public transportation fares and add more stations in the process. even though a station at weston for blue 22 might be underused and close down shortly after opening, for this reason (possibly converting the line to a public transport line in the event of a blue 22 failure) is a good reason to build the station anyway.
 
I can't imagine a family of four shelling out $176 for a round trip ...

The family of 4 managed to find upwards of $4000 to fly to Vancouver and back for Grandma's birthday party; somehow I don't think $176 would break the bank.

The express service is for people flying and is a small fraction of the total round trip cost.
 
The family of 4 managed to find upwards of $4000 to fly to Vancouver and back for Grandma's birthday party; somehow I don't think $176 would break the bank.

The express service is for people flying and is a small fraction of the total round trip cost.

That already comes on the backs of some of the highest air fares, taxes and fees in the world. Like it or not, aviation keeps our world connected. How do you know that the 176 dollars won't take that family another month to save?

While I don't support making Blue22 a public transit service, I don't think the logic that just because people can afford to fly some where that we should be allowed to tax them to the hilt is apt. Nearby US airports are already becoming alternatives to Pearson. And for those who really care about making aviation greener, that's a really terrible scenario. And a bad decision when it comes to supporting Canadian businesses.
 
Does the "family of four" take public transit anywhere? The only time I ever see this archetypical family is right after sports games or concerts at the ACC/RogersCenter or similar events. Even then it is because it makes more sense to park at Finch or Yorkdale than to get scalped on parking, not said family taking public transit to their TOD utopia. Bringing up bogus demographics to support or criticize projects is lame. Especially when the project in question makes it quite clear that it isn't geared towards this demographic.

The fact is, if cost is a concern, the TTC already operates a pretty decent service (the Airport Rocket). It costs next to nothing compared to every other option at 1.75/person. I use it fairly often and I have never, ever, seen a family on it. The demographic is very clear, single travelers over 16 and under 35 with limited baggage, maybe with a few couples in the mix. Certainly not the "family of four." I don't think this is unique to Toronto, I see the same thing on the Piccadilly Line coming in from Heathrow. If we were to build an Eglinton LRT, or even a subway, I doubt this would be much different.

Keeping on with the Blue22, I haven't looked at their business model to see what their anticipated market is. I imagine (hope?) they have done such studies and found that the people most interested in a Union-Pearson link are single business travelers on expense accounts, maybe a few CityPlace types. I would bet that any honest study on the market would find that the "family of four" is about as likely to take Blue22 as the "polygamous Mormon family of 52."

EDIT: Hell, "polygamouse Mormon family of 52" would have to pay over eleven hundred dollars to take Blue 22. Sacrebleu!
 
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Why do we keep comparing ourselves to Heathrow, one of the world's busiest and most important airports? How about Gatwick, Barcelona, Rome (FCO), or Munich, which have similar passenger numbers...

Gatwick: Take the Gatwick Express, intercity train, or regional train
Munich: Take the S-Bahn.
Barcelona: Commuter Rail... high speed and Metro coming soon
Rome: Express Trains or Local Trains

What about Copenhagen... 2/3rds of the passengers of YYZ, but it has high speed, intercity, regional rail and metro

Look what happened to the Sydney airport train (Sydney has similar passengers numbers to YYZ)...

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/03/10/1141701698598.html

For sale: ghost train to Sydney Airport
By Jordan Baker and Sherrill Nixon
March 11, 2006

SYDNEY'S airport rail link - which has cost taxpayers $800 million and been mocked as the "ghost train" - will be put up for sale as early as next week.

The sale raises questions about what the new owner will do with the $12 one-way fare from the airport to Central, which has been blamed for keeping thousands of travellers off the line. It costs only $2.80 to travel to Central from Wolli Creek, the first station after the airport on the East Hills line.

The winning bidder will have the right to charge passengers for using the 10-kilometre rail link until 2030. It will take over the lease on four private train stations - at the domestic and international airport terminals, plus Mascot and Green Square. Bidders could include Macquarie Bank, arms of which already own the airport and hold substantial stakes in the toll roads that lead to the airport, the M5 and the Eastern Distributor.

One option for the new owners - especially for Macquarie Bank - could be combined air-rail tickets, a proposal mooted when the link ran into difficulties in 2000.

The line's operator, Airport Link Company, went into receivership six months after the service opened in May 2000, blaming the then $10 fare and late trains for turning off passengers.

It was another disastrous episode in public-private partnerships, long before the Cross City Tunnel debacle. Motorists have baulked at the high cost of the tunnel toll, just as travellers have resisted the fare for the airport link. The rail link triggered a long legal battle with the State Government, which was forced to spend $800 million to extract itself from the contract, which bound it to make up shortfalls in revenue below forecast levels.

At the time of the final payment in October last year, the Government estimated it carried 14,000 people a day, well below the forecast 48,000. But the link was commissioned in 1995 by the former Liberal government, which gave the guarantee on passenger numbers. Current figures are not available because they are considered commercial-in-confidence, but patronage is said to be growing, and the business is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. It is believed an international marketing campaign to sell it will begin soon, with interest likely from infrastructure and equity funds around the world. The receivers, McGrath Nicol, would not comment. However, a spokesman said he would have more to say when the campaign had begun.

Bidders may be attracted by a large development around Green Square station over the next 10 years. About 5500 residents are expected to live in its town centre, and 7000 work in surrounding offices and shops. More than 33,000 are expected to live and 29,000 in the greater Green Square area by 2021.

Sydney Airport is expected to handle twice as many passengers - 68.3 million - by 2023.

For now, a taxi ride into the city is often a cheaper option for a couple or two friends contemplating the $12 train fare.
 
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The family of 4 managed to find upwards of $4000 to fly to Vancouver and back for Grandma's birthday party; somehow I don't think $176 would break the bank.

People who pay $1000 a person to fly to Vancouver aren't looking for deals so of course they won't care about paying $176.

Like I said, I don't have problems with Blue22 existing as long as the existence of it doesn't give public transit agencies licence to underserve an important trip generator.
 
Personally - as soon as the cost of getting to and from Pearson with all the luggage starts hitting the $100 range, I simply drive there - park in the long-term parking near Viscount station, and pay the $52 a week for parking.
 
Health concerns could derail high-speed transit link to Pearson airport
National Post
Published: Tuesday, April 21, 2009

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto/story.html?id=1516680

Toronto's board of health yesterday put a potential roadblock in the path of a proposed rail line to Pearson airport, asking public health officials to study the effects of increased diesel-engine train traffic along the corridor. Metrolinx, the regional transportation authority, is contemplating a high-speed rail link from downtown to Pearson that would pass through the Weston neighbourhood. Councillor Paula Fletcher (Toronto Danforth), a health board member, requested the study, but said the investigation is in no way an attempt to derail the much-needed service. David McKeown, Toronto's Medical Officer of Health, said the focus will be on the potential public health impact, especially on schools and residents. "The challenge is there are many issues involved and we don't yet have all of the information that would allow us to do a quantitative assessment so we will have to take a look at the information that's available."
 
While I think it's important to study such things, I don't think this counts as a matter of Provincial interest related to natural or cultural heritage resources or a constitutionally recognized aboriginal treaty issue. These are the only factors that can pause a transit EA.
 
Health concerns could derail high-speed transit link to Pearson airport
National Post
Published: Tuesday, April 21, 2009

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto/story.html?id=1516680

Toronto's board of health yesterday put a potential roadblock in the path of a proposed rail line to Pearson airport, asking public health officials to study the effects of increased diesel-engine train traffic along the corridor. Metrolinx, the regional transportation authority, is contemplating a high-speed rail link from downtown to Pearson that would pass through the Weston neighbourhood. Councillor Paula Fletcher (Toronto Danforth), a health board member, requested the study, but said the investigation is in no way an attempt to derail the much-needed service. David McKeown, Toronto's Medical Officer of Health, said the focus will be on the potential public health impact, especially on schools and residents. "The challenge is there are many issues involved and we don't yet have all of the information that would allow us to do a quantitative assessment so we will have to take a look at the information that's available."


Amazing. How about one of those on the 401?
 
Well, if such insanity shuts down the GO expansion, then they had better order all the cars off the road right now, as that's a much worse problem!

I'm amazed at how far some people's head is stuck up their arses!
 
From facebook:

Adam Giambrone The Union Pearson Project is going to create a lot of problems for the communities near the tracks. 100's of diesel trains and HUGE concrete walls running for km's for the overpass...cutting off communities.

I thought Mayor's position was in support of this project... Interesting for the head of such an important city committee to make such comments... :rolleyes:
 
Why does he just say Union Pearson? The entire airport link part of the project could disappear tomorrow, and there'd be very little change to what is going to be constructed, which is primarily to support GO's operations.
 
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