Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[gweed123]

Had an interesting experience yesterday.....one of our guys is travelling to Montreal...I asked if he was flying off the island...said no because flights from Pearson were ~$200 cheaper than island...then I asked if he was taking UP to the airport he said "when does that go into service?"....was stunned when I told him it had been running since last June.

I think it would be really beneficial if airlines (especially Air Canada, since they run a lot of the short haul routes that compete with Porter) started to offer return UP fare as an option when you purchase your plane ticket. That way, even if the passenger chooses not to buy it, they're at least aware the service exists. If they do choose to buy it, they could get a UPX voucher when they print off their boarding pass. It doesn't even have to be a special deal with Air Canada, just include it as an option. Window seat, vegeterian meal, UP ticket.

 

[TOareaFan]

I think it would be really beneficial if airlines (especially Air Canada, since they run a lot of the short haul routes that compete with Porter) started to offer return UP fare as an option when you purchase your plane ticket. That way, even if the passenger chooses not to buy it, they're at least aware the service exists. If they do choose to buy it, they could get a UPX voucher when they print off their boarding pass. It doesn't even have to be a special deal with Air Canada, just include it as an option. Window seat, vegeterian meal, UP ticket.

Agree....if I am correct, I expect that some time in 2016 Air Canada will suspend its flights off the island...and at that time will likely have some sort of marketing/offering that shows with the UP and all their flights from Pearson they are a better option for downtown travelers than Porter off of the island....just a hunch but as someone who uses both airlines off the island, my anecdotal observation is that AC are not cutting it from there and have to be looking at revising their offering and a UP/flight package makes sense.

 

[gweed123]

Agree....if I am correct, I expect that some time in 2016 Air Canada will suspend its flights off the island...and at that time will likely have some sort of marketing/offering that shows with the UP and all their flights from Pearson they are a better option for downtown travelers than Porter off of the island....just a hunch but as someone who uses both airlines off the island, my anecdotal observation is that AC are not cutting it from there and have to be looking at revising their offering and a UP/flight package makes sense.

Yup. This is especially true for their business travellers, since they're mostly going to/coming from downtown (sometimes in the same day). Offering a "package deal" (even if there's no actual fare deal there) only makes your service look more attractive. Porter runs a complimentary shuttle from Union, because they recognize that that trip from the CBD to Bathurst & QQ can be a pain sometimes. And given that UP is already giving out promo coupons and stuff, I'd have to think they'd be open to such an arrangement. No doubt it would be mutually beneficial.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Anecdotally, I did 4 trips by UPX in January (my flight, 3 Meet & Greets). Definitely more people on each train, even late(ish) night. I think it's starting to ramp up nicely, but we'll see.

Air Canada does make it convenient to buy a UPX ticket onboard, but it's not Presto compatible.

 

[TOareaFan]

Anecdotally, I did 4 trips by UPX in January (my flight, 3 Meet & Greets). Definitely more people on each train, even late(ish) night. I think it's starting to ramp up nicely, but we'll see.

Air Canada does make it convenient to buy a UPX ticket onboard, but it's not Presto compatible.

not sure why, if you had a presto card, you would need to buy on board the plane? wouldn't you just tap your presto card when you got to the train? isn't that easier?

 

[DSC]

not sure why, if you had a presto card, you would need to buy on board the plane? wouldn't you just tap your presto card when you got to the train? isn't that easier?

The problem is not for those of us who already have a PRESTO card (except you need to be sure it has enough money on it) I think the issue is for people who DO NOT have one as travel with a Presto Card is cheaper. If you are taking UPX in two directions or are going to use it while visiting Toronto it is worth the cost of buying a card even at $6. It is hardly unreasonable to expect these folk to buy a PRESTO at the UPX station. If you only want a single ticket it is easier for Air Canada to sell that to you, I can't see them being willing to sell PRESTO cards. The problem is really that Metrolinx does not really spell out the advantages of buying a PRESTO card so people who would save $$ by buying one will end up buying individual tickets.

 

[Palma]

The problem is not for those of us who already have a PRESTO card (except you need to be sure it has enough money on it) I think the issue is for people who DO NOT have one as travel with a Presto Card is cheaper. If you are taking UPX in two directions or are going to use it while visiting Toronto it is worth the cost of buying a card even at $6. It is hardly unreasonable to expect these folk to buy a PRESTO at the UPX station. If you only want a single ticket it is easier for Air Canada to sell that to you, I can't see them being willing to sell PRESTO cards. The problem is really that Metrolinx does not really spell out the advantages of buying a PRESTO card so people who would save $$ by buying one will end up buying individual tickets.

I cannot believe that people are stupid that they could not do a simple calculation to see whats cheaper

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I cannot believe that people are stupid that they could not do a simple calculation to see whats cheaper

i don't think it's them being stupid it's a matter of convince. If the airline offers it as an add on to your current ticket and it makes sense to be used poel will do it.

 

[reaperexpress]

Keep in mind that cost recovery is cost divided by revenue. So another way of improving it is to reduce operating cost.

Eliminating Weston and Bloor as stops would definitely reduce the fleet requirement from 5 trainsets to 4, a 20% savings in train operating costs.

Current: 75 minute round trip: 25 min to Pearson, 17 min layover, 25 min to Union, 8 min layover.
75 min round trip / 15 min headway = 5 vehicles

Proposed: 60 minute round trip: 20 min to Pearson, 12 min layover, 20 min to Union, 8 min layover.
60 min round trip / 15 min headway = 4 vehicles

I expect the number of riders lost from Weston and Bloor would be outweighed by the number of higher-paying Union-Pearson passengers attracted by the faster service.

If skipping the intermediate translates to a 5% reduction in total operating costs, we could even drop fares by 5%, boosting ridership even further.

Of course, GO needs to provide local service along the corridor as well. But that's true regardless of whether UP makes intermediate stops.

 

[DSC]

I cannot believe that people are stupid that they could not do a simple calculation to see whats cheaper

People are not (very) stupid but if you are visiting a city it may not occur to you that buying a 'general transit card' for $6 may actually offer you quite significant savings even if you only intend to use it for trips to and from the airport. My point was that Metrolink/UPX do not really help people understand the possibilities. On the UPX Fares web pages there is one page (the default) for "Standard fares" and another for PRESTO Fares - if they seriously wanted people to make the comparison there would be ONE page where the savings would be far more obvious.

 

[Palma]

Keep in mind that cost recovery is cost divided by revenue. So another way of improving it is to reduce operating cost.

Eliminating Weston and Bloor as stops would definitely reduce the fleet requirement from 5 trainsets to 4, a 20% savings in train operating costs.

Current: 75 minute round trip: 25 min to Pearson, 17 min layover, 25 min to Union, 8 min layover.
75 min round trip / 15 min headway = 5 vehicles

Proposed: 60 minute round trip: 20 min to Pearson, 12 min layover, 20 min to Union, 8 min layover.
60 min round trip / 15 min headway = 4 vehicles

I expect the number of riders lost from Weston and Bloor would be outweighed by the number of higher-paying Union-Pearson passengers attracted by the faster service.

If skipping the intermediate translates to a 5% reduction in total operating costs, we could even drop fares by 5%, boosting ridership even further.

Of course, GO needs to provide local service along the corridor as well. But that's true regardless of whether UP makes intermediate stops.

So people transferring from Weston (it is supposed to be a hub after all) and Bloor are to go to Union just to ride back up to Pearson!

 

[dowlingm]

So people transferring from Weston (it is suppose to be a hub after all) and Bloor are to go to Union just to ride back up to Pearson!

The 3 people waiting at Weston could walk to Eglinton and get Crosstown West

 

[Palma]

The 3 people waiting at Weston could walk to Eglinton and get Crosstown West

well ya once the crosstown is built (and who really knows when that will be, we know plans do not mean anything until construction starts) as most people will prefer to pay TTC fare vs UP fare

 

[reaperexpress]

So people transferring from Weston (it is suppose to be a hub after all) and Bloor are to go to Union just to ride back up to Pearson!

And what about the people in Etobicoke North who currently are unable to make use of the service? Or all those people at St. Clair?

It's called Union-Pearson Express, not Union-Pearson milk run. The whole point of an express train is to provide superior service for a given trip at the expense of the intermediate stops.

People at Bloor will continue to ride the Bloor subway to Kipling and take the 192 as they've always done. It's not even that much slower anyway.

UP is woefully uncompetitive from Weston anyway, it's hard to justify such a large expense for such a short trip. If we actually want to could improve that journey by making the 52A a rocket route.

And most importantly, I did emphasize that the express needs to be in addition to a more frequent GO local service.

 

[Megaton327]

And what about the people in Etobicoke North who currently are unable to make use of the service? Or all those people at St. Clair?

It's called Union-Pearson Express, not Union-Pearson milk run. The whole point of an express train is to provide superior service for a given trip at the expense of the intermediate stops.

People at Bloor will continue to ride the Bloor subway to Kipling and take the 192 as they've always done. It's not even that much slower anyway.

UP is woefully uncompetitive from Weston anyway, it's hard to justify such a large expense for such a short trip. If we actually want to could improve that journey by making the 52A a rocket route.

And most importantly, I did emphasize that the express needs to be in addition to a more frequent GO local service.

I don't think it will ever happen now that all of this money has been dumped into Bloor and Weston's UPX stations, but I think the perfect solution would be to get rid of Bloor and Weston and have just one intermediary stop at Mount Dennis (Eglinton) where it intersects the Crosstown line. That station seems much more likely to be a fairly important hub than Weston or Bloor/Dundas W.

I agree that there needs to be a more frequent GO local service, but my reason for that is if you remove Bloor and Weston in exchange for Caledonia, then you at least still have a northern station on the UPX line where GO users can interchange with the service. Hell, somebody who absolutely wants to get to Bloor station but doesn't want to deal with the bus can take UPX to Caledonia then GO to Bloor, ditto for Weston and a possible future station at St Clair. Also, because we have no idea how long it'll be before Crosstown gets to the airport, I can imagine some midtowners taking the UPX out of Pearson then transferring to the LRT at Mt Dennis.

Edit: Mt Dennis not Caledonia, thanks reaperexpress