Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

drum118 said:
Until the new signaling is in place, having early Sunday service will be a dream outside of special events. Same goes for 7/24 service. Sending emails is a waste of time.

Once the new signaling is up and running, you can shut down one track and run trains in both directions on the other track. Down side to this, one track operation will see longer headways, but better than no service at all.

TTC could even do track work in the off peak time frame to speed up repairs or what every has to happen since we have a very old out dated system. Having small windows to do work is only going to have things cause more problems down the road.

Even station would see one track service at times to speed work up on them than close them down 100%.

When did TTC start late service on various sections of the lines as well close them down for a full weekend?? Only happen in the last 5 years or when A major issue rose before then.
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Cool, thanks for the info. Although, personally I think I'd prefer a frequent bus at night rather than a very infrequent subway. Not much traffic at night anyways.
 
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/union-pearson-express-is-too-expensive-poll-1.2502987

Again, I pin this on bad marketing and an over-reliance on fluffy branding and advertisements. I also think the two-tier pricing structure for Presto and non-Presto users might customers the impression of price-gouging. I agree with some earlier comments saying that they should have had a longer complimentary ride period for its launch, perhaps even during the Pan Ams.
 
I saw some tweets by John Lorinc (a pretty clued in guy) about paying cash fare from Bloor to YYZ which led to Anne Marie Aikins jumping in to clarify (https://twitter.com/femwriter/status/628293525113733120). If the cost effectiveness of Presto isn't reaching him...

I think Metrolinx thought UPX would have 416ers signing up for Presto in droves. Instead I think they should have Prestoed the Island Ferries - if that was the way to skip the ticket line they would have sold more in a weekend than UPX in a month, surely?
 
CDL.TO said:
Messaging is so important. Message should have been "Regular fare is $19. Premium fare (payment without using PRESTO) is $27.50."

Basing your opinion on the highest possible price for a product is foolish.
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The way I look at is if you have Presto you get a discount just like say if you have a loyalty card for a book store or something you get a discount on it well people that don't have it pay full price. Lots of places do things like that I don't see any problem with Metro links doing t with the airport express if you want to pay 19 dollars instead of 27.50 get a presto card. We'll probably all need them anyway in the next few years just get it ahead of everyone else, if you plan to use UPEX
 
drum118 said:
Once the new signaling is up and running, you can shut down one track and run trains in both directions on the other track.
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I learn something new today.

Bidirectional TTC subway service on only one track is actually possible? With the new signalling system (Although that would not arrive till the next decade). Nice. I can see how that will be required to make possible 24/7 service, allowing the other track to be worked on for longer time periods and even in offpeak.

I guess new wayfinding would be needed -- changeable message electronic signs!
 
mdrejhon said:
I learn something new today. Bidirectional TTC subway service on only one track is actually possible with the new signalling system (Although that would not arrive till the next decade).

I can see how that will be required to make possible 24/7 service, allowing the other track to be worked on for longer time periods and even in offpeak.

I guess new wayfinding would be needed -- changeable message electronic signs!
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Not rely if they did do that they would probably just put up barriers by the stairs that are closed off and have staff to direct poel like they do another time they close something down.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Not rely if they did do that they would probably just put up barriers by the stairs that are closed off and have staff to direct poel like they do another time they close something down.
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The upcoming new 21st-century-looking bidirectional Presto electronic faregates might play a role, for certain stations that have separate gates for separate sides of the platform.

The gates would lock for the side that isn't open.
 
mdrejhon said:
The new bidirectional electronic faregates might play a role, for certain stations that have separate gates for separate sides of the platform.

The gates would lock for the side that isn't open.
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unless they just put them in the same place as the current ones are which give access to all parts of the sation
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
unless they just put them in the same place as the current ones are which give access to all parts of the sation
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Some stations such as Dundas requires you to exit gates/re-enter if you arrive on the wrong side of the platform.

When those fancy gates are finally up in the TTC stations, installing an electric sign no longer looks so far-fetched for TTC... I am deaf so a TTC staff calling me from the booth at 3:30am would not reach me if I walk towards the wrong stairs, and it is unlikely they'll have extra staffing outside the booths at such wee hours in an era when TTC subway runs 24 hours. The existing signs say "NORTH" / "SOUTH" and that needs to be fixed when TTC runs one track bidirectionally during that future era.
 
mdrejhon said:
Some stations such as Dundas requires you to exit gates/re-enter if you arrive on the wrong side of the platform.

When those fancy gates are finally up in the TTC stations, installing an electric sign no longer looks so far-fetched for TTC... I am deaf so a TTC staff calling me from the booth at 3:30am would not reach me if I walk towards the wrong stairs, and it is unlikely they'll have extra staffing outside the booths at such wee hours in an era when TTC subway runs 24 hours. The existing signs say "NORTH" / "SOUTH" and that needs to be fixed when TTC runs one track bidirectionally during that future era.
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it's parabobly not likely to happen often it's more that they could do it if they needed to do it
 
I would have assumed bidirectional service on a single track would imply that you're still using both platforms, but that north and southbound trains would take turns using one set of tracks. In that sort of set up I think you would need to use both platforms, to give oncoming trains a place where they can pass.
 
whatever said:
I would have assumed bidirectional service on a single track would imply that you're still using both platforms, but that north and southbound trains would take turns using one set of tracks. In that sort of set up I think you would need to use both platforms, to give oncoming trains a place where they can pass.
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Thinking...

I imagine that this could happen but only at specific stations (near locations where there are crossovers). This doesn't preclude that some stations may see both directions serving only one platform, given that 7-minutes means a train has already dived half the downtown "U".

A hypothetical decrease in frequency to 24hour-streetcar-style ~15-minute frequency (approx) during the 1:30-5:00am wee hours, seems to allow a subway train to do the complete "U" in both directions on just only one side. With such large headways (no speed retarding for train ahead/behind), the light commuter traffic permitting short dwells, and the new signalling, the trains can presumably run the whole U pretty quickly (compared to daytime) to permit one-track one-platform operation of both directions in the downtown core. In this case, the train-passing crossovers can easily happen near Bloor, and only one track / one platform at all stations in the downtown "U" can be used for both directions. On some nights both directions serve one platform, and on other nights both directions would serve other platforms.

This really, really simplifies nightly maintenance during 24/7 operation as crew can continuously work on one track while the subway is using the other. Then it would alternate the next night.

I imagine there'll be multiple levels of offpeak service, depending on where the train-passing crossovers are used, and if reduced headways are run during the overnight period (to permit uninterrupted maintenance on one track). Allowing one track/one platform to remain unused at several stations seems really one of the only ways to let TTC run 24 hour service.

Regardless of what service plan occurs, changeable-message-signs for "NORTH"/"SOUTH" will still be needed.

Anyone have a map of all the TTC crossovers where trains are able to switch tracks between platforms? How tight headways can we achieve with existing crossovers -- while allowing trains to use only one track/one platform at most stations for both directions? Enough crossovers would need to be available in order to use different crossover stations on different nights, to permit different stations to act as passing stations (both platforms in use), with a single-track (for both directions) for a stretch of several subway stations.

Also, would new crossovers be needed? If so, how expensive is it to retrofit new underground train-passing crossovers? I presume the wall between the two tracks can be knocked down and crossovers added, so it doesn't require underground corridor widening -- mainly a structural engineering issue where the median wall is load-supporting. Presumably, two would crossovers be needed at close intervals -- one on each side of select stations -- to do the go-around for passing trains (Ottawa O-Train style at Carleton University).

So basically -- PTC system and enough crossovers -- and you can do uninterrupted continuous maintenance of track for several-station-stretches, during 24/7 subway operation.
 
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A couple pics from the RailPath at Bloor Station:

There really isn't very much room between the platform and the path for the fourth track (cyclist for scale). Given the steep slope and limited space, a retaining wall will definitely be needed.
It will be pretty intense being on the RailPath while a diesel train is accelerating out of the station only a metre away.
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Here's where the path veers east, away from the tracks (looking southbound toward Bloor Street). Based on the position of the light poles, it looks like there's room to move the path about half a metre east on the northern segment where it's closer to the railway. This would require cutting back the vegetation on the east side of the path to make room.
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Thanks for posting those - I had meant to get down there and see how the station is progressing.

Imagine those pictures with a fourth track, and poles for the electric wires, and a sound fence on top of a retaining wall. It's hard to be sure that the path won't suffer from the transformation. One option might be to enhace that stretch as an extension of the station itself ie more of an open square than a segment of pathway.

The light poles can probably be moved, and that vegetation will probably need to be shaved. When electrification happens there will have to be a minimum clearance between overhead branches and the catenary - that may not bode well for some of the trees that have grown up in that space.

- Paul
 
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