Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

Wow, that was a real interesting read!

There are some countries where high speed trains pass by at something like 200 to 300 kilometers per hour. A photo of one had signs such as "High Speed Trains Pass Through Without Stopping! Stand Clear" with a hazard logo of some kind. If 145kph is very startling, wait till you see one pass by at 300kph. Normally they use a passing lane further from the platform but is apparently not true for every single high speed line in the world. That would be quite something if you were not expecting a train ten feet to your side.

On this topic....The Georgetown corridor upgrades spreading all the way to Kitchener, pre-HSR....

If GO trains speed up over time (faster GO RER trainsets on specific corridors) they probably will have to go high platform with fewer protrusions (aerodynamic and injury risk, and the fact higher speed trains are nearly all high platform now). I wonder if SmartTrack (GO RER) will slowly over a couple decades, introduce introduce high platform GO Trains in the Kitchener corridor, with a 200kph "high performance rail" interim speedup before the official HSR, if it is not cancelled, given the long stretches between some stations make 200kph EMUs could be worthwhile on the Kitchener route even for the current existing routing, with no new ROW yet.
 
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vegeta_skyline said:
Not a problem. I've found it can very slightly deepening on the locomotive(2-3mph) and of course some engineers might take it easier on the throttle.



Well that depends. Seems like every year [...]
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Thanks for this post, Vegeta! I agree with mdrejhon, it was highly informative and interesting.

mdrejhon said:
There are some countries where high speed trains pass by at something like 200 to 300 kilometers per hour. A photo of one had signs such as "High Speed Trains Pass Through Without Stopping! Stand Clear" with a hazard logo of some kind. If 145kph is very startling, wait till you see one pass by at 300kph. Normally they use a passing lane further from the platform but is apparently not true for every single high speed line in the world. That would be quite something if you were not expecting a train ten feet to your side.
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This situation tends to occur on upgraded lines, rather than dedicated HSR lines. As a result, speeds tend not to exceed around 260 km/h. Some nearby examples are Mansfield Station and Kingston Station on the Northeast Corridor, both of which have 240 km/h limits.

As for the sign, even we have those in Ontario. They are quite common along the Quebec-Windsor Corridor. Off the top of my head, I can think of examples at Rouge Hill, Belleville and Kingston stations.
 
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Thanks for the regards guys. Interesting points re; high speed trains flying by platforms. I'm not sure what the boys at GO would do if we(hopefully when we) actually get trains that run that fast. A couple years back they put out a rather strange bulletin - If a regular all stops train had to bypass a station it would normally stop at, it would be require to pass through the station at a maximum speed of 25mph(IIRC) Thankfully this did not aplly to the Lakeshore lines. My guess is this was in responses to a passenger complaint. The bulletin was shortly thereafter rescinded when they no doubt realized the pointlessness of it, considering that even the standard protocol for a train stop suggests a speed that is almost twice that at the start of a platform :rolleyes:
 
vegeta_skyline said:
Thanks for the regards guys. Interesting points re; high speed trains flying by platforms. I'm not sure what the boys at GO would do if we(hopefully when we) actually get trains that run that fast. A couple years back they put out a rather strange bulletin - If a regular all stops train had to bypass a station it would normally stop at, it would be require to pass through the station at a maximum speed of 25mph(IIRC) Thankfully this did not aplly to the Lakeshore lines. My guess is this was in responses to a passenger complaint. The bulletin was shortly thereafter rescinded when they no doubt realized the pointlessness of it, considering that even the standard protocol for a train stop suggests a speed that is almost twice that at the start of a platform :rolleyes:
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Have you had a chance to drive one of the MPI rebuilds with the dual Cummins QSK-60 engines? At 5400 HP with the combined engines, i'm wondering if they felt any different in terms of handling and acceleration.

I'm already surprised at how fast the 12 car trains can accelerate off the line, wondering if there is a further improvement with these new engines.
 
reaperexpress said:
This situation tends to occur on upgraded lines, rather than dedicated HSR lines. As a result, speeds tend not to exceed around 260 km/h. Some nearby examples are Mansfield Station and Kingston Station on the Northeast Corridor, both of which have 240 km/h limits.
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Still pretty darn close to 300kph; even 140kph is pretty startling when you weren't expecting it. I do recall seeing video of some asian station (China? Japan?) with a train zooming by at what looked darn near 300kph, but I can't find which video. I did find one other video of 240kph platform-edge and a bilevel EMU zooming 206kph platform-edge, so clearly these are quite thrilling speeds for anybody who dares to stand on the otherwise-quiet platform at that timing.

As a train driver, I am sure you can see whenever there's a big crowd ahead (e.g. after a major regional event) and you pre-emptively slow train down. I often see GO train drivers almost always enter the station much more slowly if the suburban platform is crowded, since obviously, there's a bigger risk of people falling into the tracks. However, there was one time an express GOtrain zoomed by with a light-moderate crowd about 50+ people on the platform (I think it was Long Branch, can't remember exactly where).

I am a deaf person, so I do not hear approaching trains. I have a suggestion to Metrolinx (probably should tweet to them) that they should put up signage to improve accessibility:

Better Safety for Passing Trains

Possible sxample:
-- "CAUTION. VIA AND EXPRESS GO TRAINS PASS AT HIGH SPEED. STAND CLEAR OF YELLOW LINE."
.......on a sign on a post near station entrance(s);
.......and/or on the ground behind yellow line (stencil yellow spray paint, or weatherproof melt-on, maybe shortened sentence "PASSING EXPRESS TRAINS. STAND CLEAR.")
.......and/or clearer platform-edge hazard zone like the yellow bumpy stuff they use at the accessibility platforms, less likely to fade than a paint stripe

Note: I do not want GOtrains to slow down, so I don't want Metrolinx to misinterpret my request. I also don't want other people to complain to slow down the trains (the signage will result in informed people who may not be aware that passing trains/express trains exist). I prefer service to speed up, but such signage will inform people who would like to avoid being startled by high speed trains, or possibly being grazed/injured (or worse) by one. It's wholly possible only one warning sign is needed at some GO stations.

Signage for Station Names

In addition, I have a minor complaint about accessibility. As a deaf person, sometimes I don't know which station I am at on GO. There's no visual station announcements (no videoboards on train), and station signage is very sparse at most GO stations, often not visible from my window. I missed my desired station once on an unfamiliar GO route, because of that -- causing almost an hour delay as I correct my mistake.
.......Short term, a reasonably inexpensive solution is to make sure signage (e.g. "BRONTE") is on EVERY lamppost, and/or on the boundary fence every 25 meters -- spaced every one car length apart so a minimum 12 signs along both sides of the whole length of a GO platform, and also on ALL center-platform lampposts and buildings -- so station names are visible from all windows of all trains.
.......Long term, a more expensive solution is to make sure all future trainsets (e.g. GO RER EMUs) have built-in dotmatrix or videoboards so I can see stations show up.

If you can tell me which is the most effective way to communicate to Metrolinx accessibility department (FedEx, tweet, email, etc), I would love to know. GO Train accessibility for the deaf is poor, worse than for the handicapped. It helps that I am familiar with the system and there are apps (e.g. GPS on your phone, or Transit APp) so you see the station name near the GPS dot on your Maps App. But it is daunting for a first-time user, even more so if you're deaf.
 
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robmausser said:
Have you had a chance to drive one of the MPI rebuilds with the dual Cummins QSK-60 engines? At 5400 HP with the combined engines, i'm wondering if they felt any different in terms of handling and acceleration.
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He hasn't, and no one else has. The units don't exist yet.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
He hasn't, and no one else has. The units don't exist yet.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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Nor has GO 647 returned from its Franken-upgrade in Boise, AFAIK http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=463640&nseq=40

I took a shareholder's tour of the Weston Sub today. There is still a substantial bit of trackwork to complete on Track 1 (eventual Track 2) between Bloor and King Street. The separate track for the Barrie Service east of Parkdale hasn't been completed in places, either. At present GO is using T1(2) for Barrie and T2(3) for GO. I couldn't see if T3(4) is still complete - it has been used by UPX trains for testing, as was T1(2) until GO tore it up from Bloor to College. Both Weston and Bloor stations are coming along, but are still quite a ways from being usable.

Oddly, the east end of the north platform and roofing at Malton has been torn apart and is being rebuilt. It's disturbing to see how much of the just-paved surface of the new station is already torn up and redone. Why do it once when you can do it twice at the taxpayer's expense?

On the brighter side, the segment from Humberview (Islington) to Nickle (Jane ) has the fourth track (eventual T1) laid in places and there is no major civil work required that would delay finishing the fourth track in that segment. I may be getting ahead of myself, but if they finished four tracks in that one segment, it might give GO some operational flexibility. The 401 tunnel remains the limiting factor west of Humberview. Crews did appear to be doing some preparatory work for the fourth track west of Malton, and the underpass project at Torbram is getting started. Signalling is slowly being cut in.

So....progress, but I'm not making any bets on a May opening.

- Paul
 
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mdrejhon said:
Still pretty darn close to 300kph; even 140kph is pretty startling when you weren't expecting it. I do recall seeing video of some asian station (China? Japan?) with a train zooming by at what looked darn near 300kph, but I can't find which video.
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The Tokaido Shinkansen does have some stations with trains passing directly at platforms at high speed, such as Atami Station. As far as I'm aware, they all have platform edge gates to protect riders from the passing trains. The line operated at 210 km/h at the time of opening though nowadays tilting trains operate at up to 300 km/h along the line. I don't know if any of the stations without passing tracks are in 300 km/h zones.

Signage for Station Names

In addition, I have a minor complaint about accessibility. As a deaf person, sometimes I don't know which station I am at on GO. There's no visual station announcements (no videoboards on train), and station signage is very sparse at most GO stations, often not visible from my window. I missed my desired station once on an unfamiliar GO route, because of that -- causing almost an hour delay as I correct my mistake.
.......Short term, a reasonably inexpensive solution is to make sure signage (e.g. "BRONTE") is on EVERY lamppost, and/or on the boundary fence every 25 meters -- spaced every one car length apart so a minimum 12 signs along both sides of the whole length of a GO platform, and also on ALL center-platform lampposts and buildings -- so station names are visible from all windows of all trains.
.......Long term, a more expensive solution is to make sure all future trainsets (e.g. GO RER EMUs) have built-in dotmatrix or videoboards so I can see stations show up.

If you can tell me which is the most effective way to communicate to Metrolinx accessibility department (FedEx, tweet, email, etc), I would love to know. GO Train accessibility for the deaf is poor, worse than for the handicapped. It helps that I am familiar with the system and there are apps (e.g. GPS on your phone, or Transit APp) so you see the station name near the GPS dot on your Maps App. But it is daunting for a first-time user, even more so if you're deaf.
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I quite agree on the shortage of information signage in GO trains, which is not only an issue for the deaf, but for everyone. It is quite frankly surprising that there are no interior "next stop" displays (as far as I'm aware), I thought they were required under AODA.

For instance, once when I was heading home on a Lakeshore line train from Port Credit to Danforth there were some screaming kids preventing me from hearing the announcement at Union that the train would be continuing to Lincolnville rather than Oshawa. By the time I noticed that the platform signs for the train next to us were for Oshawa it was too late, and it closed its doors and left, leaving me with a 30 minute delay until the next one.

Additionally, on weekends and holidays it is quite common to overhear people who are slightly confused as to where the train is at the moment.

In-car information screens would be greatly helpful for these and many other situations.
 
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TOareaFan said:
I am gonna take a guess that it is a "stakeholder's tour" and is for people/companies actively involved in a project. Surely "shareholders" would include every single taxpayer in Ontario and I never got my invite. ;)
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You didn't? Maybe you're in the next session :)

I did mean shareholder's tour. Nothing official, I just rode the GO train to see what I could see. Being a taxpayer is quite enough reason to hold an opinion about how it's progressing.

- Paul
 
Some of the Georgetown/Kitchener train times change considerably in the May timetables. The :15 and :45 PM departures will soon be a thing of the past. The new schedules are supposedly to coordinate with the launch of UP Express trains later in the spring.

In the PM Peak, trains leave Union Station at
15:35 (from 15:30) - to Georgetown
16:20 (from 16:15) - to Georgetown
16:50 (from 16:45) - to Kitchener
17:02 (from 17:00) - to Mount Pleasant
17:20 (from 17:15) - to Georgetown
17:50 (from 17:45) - to Kitchener
18:50 (no change) - to Georgetown

But the speeds aren't any better. The first train still takes 49 minutes to get to Brampton; the 2nd still takes 50 minutes. The Union-Brampton trip times used to be below 45 minutes. The padding added to the schedules for the construction on those PM trains hasn't yet improved. (A few of the AM trains have slightly quicker trips, but by a factor of 3-5 minutes).
 
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ShonTron said:
Some of the Georgetown/Kitchener train times change considerably in the May timetables. The :15 and :45 PM departures will soon be a thing of the past. The new schedules are supposedly to coordinate with the launch of UP Express trains later in the spring.

In the PM Peak, trains leave Union Station at
15:35 (from 15:30) - to Georgetown
16:20 (from 16:15) - to Georgetown
16:50 (from 16:45) - to Kitchener
17:02 (from 17:00) - to Mount Pleasant
17:20 (from 17:15) - to Georgetown
17:50 (from 17:45) - to Kitchener
18:50 (no change) - to Georgetown

But the speeds aren't any better. The first train still takes 49 minutes to get to Brampton; the 2nd still takes 50 minutes. The Union-Brampton trip times used to be below 45 minutes. The padding added to the schedules for the construction on those PM trains hasn't yet improved. (A few of the AM trains have slightly quicker trips, but by a factor of 3-5 minutes).
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This is being discussed in the Service Thread
 
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