Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

sure, lets just price the poor out of the TTC, then they will be left with nowhere to go! they already can't afford a car, but being unable to afford public transit? really? the TTC is already coming under heavy criticism for its high Metropass prices.
 
innsertnamehere said:
sure, lets just price the poor out of the TTC, then they will be left with nowhere to go! they already can't afford a car, but being unable to afford public transit? really? the TTC is already coming under heavy criticism for its high Metropass prices.
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I prefer a 10% increase to property tax hike, regional sales tax hike, or a number of other options for raising capital. Heck, just close down Bay to regular traffic and turn it into a 4 lane BRT during prime time for an extra 30,000 passenger capacity during AM/PM peak. We don't elect that kind of mayor, and I sure as hell didn't vote for the current guy.

Again, London has shown the alternative to solving capacity short-falls is to put staff at entrances whose entire job is to close station doors periodically to prevent over-capacity situations. Sometimes for 5 minutes, sometimes they'll close for several hours. If you want transit to be reliable, demand needs to go down OR alternative paths need to be built. Conveniently a targetted pricing change can help decrease demand now and provide an alternative path for the future.

I've done dumper diving to get a meal. It sucks, it really sucks when you realize you know exactly what day/time various stores turn over their goods. Some parts of my family were/are very wealthy, but my immediate family and my wife's were not; but dealing with fare subsidies should not be the TTCs problem. I don't need a fare subsidy now; I should not be getting a fare subsidy.

Give TCHC $400M/year in tokens/passes to distribute as they see fit; a targeted subsidy will be far more effective for those who require one. Let TTC market price themselves as needed to provide reliable service with the necessary capacity to serve demand.


Few cleaning/security/retail and other low wage jobs downtown begin/end shifts during peak periods. They're mostly offset from regular hours.

Also, poor need to get to work on time too. In fact, they're far more likely to be fired for being 20 minutes late than the bank paper pusher.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
sure, lets just price the poor out of the TTC, then they will be left with nowhere to go! they already can't afford a car, but being unable to afford public transit? really? the TTC is already coming under heavy criticism for its high Metropass prices.
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From the same people who voted to take away the TTC's financial support 20 years ago probably. There is a cost for everything and we see it yet again.



FWIW, the fare should be 2.25 or whatever it is in Chicago. 3 dollars is outrageous.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Can someone be honest with me: Is there enough room for the HSR, UPX, Freight, and all day GO service @15 minutes?
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In the Georgetown corridor? I don't see why not. The pinch point is between the Pearson spur and Weston GO station (2 public transit and 1 freight track). Lets ignore freight because it can run on the single track without issue. It's a fairly low volume area for freight.

The key is to remember that HSR will be effectively a normal train in that section of track and will not be operating at high speeds; the curves wouldn't allow it even if we wanted to. HSR and the rest of the Metrolinx trains in that section will all be travelling at the same speed (80mph to 95mph) and combined make 1 train every 4 to 5 minutes. Peak period service may have more GO trains, but 3 minute combined frequencies would still be fine for a pair of tracks with a similar stop pattern.

At Weston GO Station 2 an additional tracks appear (from 3 to 5), so GO trains stopping will not block the UPX/HSR. Etobicoke GO station may require a pocket track at the station but there is plenty of room for one; the EA should identify this.

The sections including the Milton/Barrie line (also 15 minute frequencies) have 4 tracks for Metrolinx + 2 more for freight. We might see a train through this point every 2 minutes during peak periods but that's also very doable on 4 tracks.
 
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rbt said:
In the Georgetown corridor? I don't see why not. The pinch point is between the Pearson spur and Weston GO station (2 public transit and 1 freight track). Lets ignore freight because it can run on the single track without issue most of the time.

The key is to remember that HSR will be effectively a normal train in that section of track and will not be operating at high speeds.

The rest of the trains in that section will all be travelling at the same speed (80mph to 95mph) and combined make 1 train every 4 to 5 minutes. Peak period service might have more GO trains, but 3 minute frequencies but will no doubt ensure control is paying attention.

At Weston GO 2 an additional tracks appear (from 3 to 5), so GO trains stopping will not block the UPX/HSR.
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One issue may be that the UPX trains have to cross from one side of the corridor to the other along their route, which would take up more track space than they would otherwise.
 
London does close stations sometimes (e.g. Victoria, Oxford Circus) but it also has peak pricing. The alternative if you have less money is to take the bus, which is always cheaper than the tube. That wouldn't really work with our more integrated system.
 
I'd be pretty pissed off if I just spent $30 to take a train and didn't even get a seat. I would be as mad as a hatter if I was travelling with someone and we didn't find out we would have to stand until we got on the train when our combined fares would have gotten us a nice comfy taxi ride to our hotel.

I don't think someone should be denied a seat. Treating UPX "customers" like regular transit users is an offense to my patrician sensibilities as I am paying for the fare and all the regular transit users hyperventilating on their slow bus to Pearson did was pay for the damn for the whole damn line.
 
ssiguy2 said:
I'd be pretty pissed off if I just spent $30 to take a train and didn't even get a seat. I would be as mad as a hatter if I was travelling with someone and we didn't find out we would have to stand until we got on the train when our combined fares would have gotten us a nice comfy taxi ride to our hotel.

I don't think someone should be denied a seat. Treating UPX "customers" like regular transit users is an offense to my patrician sensibilities as I am paying for the fare and all the regular transit users hyperventilating on their slow bus to Pearson did was pay for the damn for the whole damn line.
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Even if they allow standing (and it is not clear to me they will) I am sure they would give you the choice to do that or wait for the next departure in 15 minutes....no one will be forced to stand.

I will say it is nice that we seem to be discussing a potential lack of capacity......it is not that long ago that people were talking in this forum about empty trains and white elephants.
 
rbt said:
In the Georgetown corridor? I don't see why not. The pinch point is between the Pearson spur and Weston GO station (2 public transit and 1 freight track). Lets ignore freight because it can run on the single track without issue. It's a fairly low volume area for freight.

The key is to remember that HSR will be effectively a normal train in that section of track and will not be operating at high speeds; the curves wouldn't allow it even if we wanted to. HSR and the rest of the Metrolinx trains in that section will all be travelling at the same speed (80mph to 95mph) and combined make 1 train every 4 to 5 minutes. Peak period service may have more GO trains, but 3 minute combined frequencies would still be fine for a pair of tracks with a similar stop pattern.

At Weston GO Station 2 an additional tracks appear (from 3 to 5), so GO trains stopping will not block the UPX/HSR. Etobicoke GO station may require a pocket track at the station but there is plenty of room for one; the EA should identify this.

The sections including the Milton/Barrie line (also 15 minute frequencies) have 4 tracks for Metrolinx + 2 more for freight. We might see a train through this point every 2 minutes during peak periods but that's also very doable on 4 tracks.
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Voltz said:
One issue may be that the UPX trains have to cross from one side of the corridor to the other along their route, which would take up more track space than they would otherwise.
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Thanks guys!
 
Voltz said:
One issue may be that the UPX trains have to cross from one side of the corridor to the other along their route, which would take up more track space than they would otherwise.
Click to expand...

My memory of track layout at Union is rough but doesn't the widened fly under take care of that? The Western pair of Georgetown tracks becomes the northern pair at Union. UPX would interleave with Milton service but shouldn't conflict at all with Barrie service or Georgetown south of Weston GO.


AM peak service at the Spadina bridge in 10 years will be fascinating to watch. A train every ~30 seconds (all directions/routes combined)? Off-peak will be a train every 90 seconds.
 
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ssiguy2 said:
I'd be pretty pissed off if I just spent $30 to take a train and didn't even get a seat. I would be as mad as a hatter if I was travelling with someone and we didn't find out we would have to stand until we got on the train when our combined fares would have gotten us a nice comfy taxi ride to our hotel.

I don't think someone should be denied a seat. Treating UPX "customers" like regular transit users is an offense to my patrician sensibilities as I am paying for the fare and all the regular transit users hyperventilating on their slow bus to Pearson did was pay for the damn for the whole damn line.
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I hope you never fly to Heathrow then.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
rbt said:
My memory of track layout at Union is rough but doesn't the widened fly under take care of that? The Western pair of Georgetown tracks becomes the northern pair at Union. UPX would interleave with Milton service but shouldn't conflict at all with Barrie service or Georgetown south of Weston GO.


AM peak service at the Spadina bridge in 10 years will be fascinating to watch. A train every ~30 seconds (all directions/routes combined)? Off-peak will be a train every 90 seconds.
Click to expand...

It does seem that the fly under would help with that, but the track layout leading into the Union corridor could change once everything is expanded, and general congestion in the area of union station would likely be an issue regardless.
 
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