innsertnamehere
Superstar
Judging by the length of it just 2. I doubt the UPX will ever really need more than that either.
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I think the answer is neither. They order is for 2 end cars and 1 middle car I think.
Voltz
Senior Member
Pretty sure the middle cars are options, but I haven't found much definitive on the train length recently, I do recall back when they were planning to use budd cars they were talking about three car trains.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Not sure if it has been mentioned (sorry if it has) but November 8th is the date for the relaunch of the airport people mover.....not directly related to the topic but a clear sign of the progress being made.
Platform 27
Active Member
As of tomorrow morning, all GO Barrie, GO Kitchener and Via service should be using the Strachan trench, with Milton as the lone track still using the level crossing. Had a look from the Bathurst bridge mid-afternoon today and they seemed mostly finished.
They exercised the option. According to this page, "two to three" cars per train, so my guess would be everything's being built for at least three. Agree that the Pearson station doesn't look long enough for four.
That should mean some good close-up photos of the new station and guideway.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Haha, I forgot about that option.
Does anyone the specs on the new DMUs? I did a quick search, but I can't find much.
The Georgetown South corridor will have speed limits up to 90 mph (145 km/h), but the Sonoma-Marin line (with which we are sharing the order) is only being built for 79 mph (127 km/h). I hope the trains are fast enough to make use of our higher speed limits.
vegeta_skyline
Senior Member
Here's a file that specifies the minimum design requirements that Sonoma-Marin desired;
http://www2.sonomamarintrain.org/us...Draft DMU Technical Specification 1-20-10.pdf
The UPE order was tacked onto the Sonoma-Marin one, so I'd imagine the specifications would be very similar if not exactly same. In the document it says the design speed is 90mph but the maximum revenue operating speed is 79mph. So perhaps the car itself is capable of 90mph but S-m didn't require that? Not sure. Anyhow that's the only public documentation I'm aware of myself.
smallspy
Senior Member
The 79mph number comes from the FRA regulations regarding passenger trains running on rail lines without any additional wayside safety systems (such as ATC or ACSES). They will run at up to 90mph in Toronto.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Thanks for finding this! It looks like the SMART trains are only rated for 79mph in service. It is possible that Metrolinx ordered a different gear ratio which would get them up to 90 though. With 3 powered cars instead of two, I would think the trains should have enough power. The question is whether those other factors such as wheels and brakes would prevent it.
I'm aware of the FRA 79mph limit does not apply in Toronto, but it is possible that given they were designing the vehicles for a line with a 79mph limit, that they did not incorporate capability to operate faster than that in service. The report mentions factors such as wheel wear and brake thermal capacity, which are physical characteristics of the vehicle. As I understand it, the vehicles would be good for 90 mph with new wheels, but their operating speed would need to decrease with wear.
Of course it is possible that Nippon-Sharyo designed the vehicle with higher standards than Sonoma-Marin's minimum so that vehicles could operate at the full speed of the Georgetown Corridor.
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smably
Senior Member
Vehicle specs say "Standard is 79 mph, option - 90 mph" (source: http://www.nipponsharyousa.com/nisshadmucatalog.pdf), so perhaps Metrolinx exercised the 90 mph option on their portion of the order.
Allandale25
Senior Member
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Yeah, this report on the feasibility of higher speed rail service in the northwest US and BC also says the trains will be able to operate at 90mph in service:
reaperexpress
Senior Member
To add to the discussion of UPX fares (which for some reason is located in the Eglinton-Crosstown thread), I looked up some of the other Airport Rail Links that often get compared to UPX, and calculated their average speeds.
The services higlighted in blue charge a premium fare. You'll immediately notice that UPX is nowhere near the speed of other premium airport services, instead being more in line with ordinary commuter rail services.
Heathrow Express is often compared to UPX to justify the high price of premium airport services. But it covers the 23 kilometres from airport to downtown in 15 minutes, compared to 25 minutes for UPX.
The pricing of other airport links should not be a justification for high ticket prices on UPX, because they provide a much more valuable service.
In 2020 when the ECLRT opens, i'd like to see both Bloor and Weston stations eliminated from UPX, to be replaced by Mount Dennis station. Hopefully by then we'll have plenty of local GO service along the Weston corridor so the loss of UPX will be inconsequential to those two stations.
The services higlighted in blue charge a premium fare. You'll immediately notice that UPX is nowhere near the speed of other premium airport services, instead being more in line with ordinary commuter rail services.
Heathrow Express is often compared to UPX to justify the high price of premium airport services. But it covers the 23 kilometres from airport to downtown in 15 minutes, compared to 25 minutes for UPX.
The pricing of other airport links should not be a justification for high ticket prices on UPX, because they provide a much more valuable service.
In 2020 when the ECLRT opens, i'd like to see both Bloor and Weston stations eliminated from UPX, to be replaced by Mount Dennis station. Hopefully by then we'll have plenty of local GO service along the Weston corridor so the loss of UPX will be inconsequential to those two stations.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
^ The only one on your list that I have any familiarity with is Heathrow and the only comment I would make about your table from that perspective is that the travel time you note is quite a bit higher from from T4&T5.
That said, i have never understood the need to justify/compare prices of things across different markets. It is like when people say things like "condo prices in Toronto are still cheap here on a psf basis when compared to London/Tokyo/Hong Kong/New York/insertcityname here"....so what? Things should be priced within their markets and compared to other options. So when I hear prices for the UPX mused at the mid-$20s each way, I compare it to cab or airport express buses and find that it is a reasonable number relative to the service provided.
So, while the chart is interesting and informative (thanks for creating it), I find it to be of little use.
I also disagree with the notion of shutting down, both, Bloor and Weston. Weston yes....replace it with Mt. Dennis....but the same way Mt. Dennis will connect the UPX to a, hopefully, busy and valuable E-W transit line, Bloor station links the UPX to the BD subway. Weston provides no value, now or in the future.
That said, i have never understood the need to justify/compare prices of things across different markets. It is like when people say things like "condo prices in Toronto are still cheap here on a psf basis when compared to London/Tokyo/Hong Kong/New York/insertcityname here"....so what? Things should be priced within their markets and compared to other options. So when I hear prices for the UPX mused at the mid-$20s each way, I compare it to cab or airport express buses and find that it is a reasonable number relative to the service provided.
So, while the chart is interesting and informative (thanks for creating it), I find it to be of little use.
I also disagree with the notion of shutting down, both, Bloor and Weston. Weston yes....replace it with Mt. Dennis....but the same way Mt. Dennis will connect the UPX to a, hopefully, busy and valuable E-W transit line, Bloor station links the UPX to the BD subway. Weston provides no value, now or in the future.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
To add to the discussion of UPX fares (which for some reason is located in the Eglinton-Crosstown thread), I looked up some of the other Airport Rail Links that often get compared to UPX, and calculated their average speeds.
The services higlighted in blue charge a premium fare. You'll immediately notice that UPX is nowhere near the speed of other premium airport services, instead being more in line with ordinary commuter rail services.
Heathrow Express is often compared to UPX to justify high prices terms of service type. But it covers the 23 kilometres from airport to downtown in 15 minutes, compared to 25 minutes for UPX.
The pricing of other airport links should not be a justification for high ticket prices on UPX, because they provide a much more valuable service.
In 2020 when the ECLRT opens, i'd like to see both Bloor and Weston stations eliminated from UPX, to be replaced by Mount Dennis station. Hopefully by then we'll have plenty of local GO service along the Weston corridor so the loss of UPX will be inconsequential to those two stations.
North America's high speed rail is really slow compared to the rest of world. However, look at the NA cities in the list. Just Toronto, Philadelphia and Seattle?