Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

^Absolutely. Plus, Metrolinx is committed to full cost recovery, including capital costs. The original $22 plan would be $30 adjusting for inflation. But the Auditor General thinks it can't even break even at that ridiculous price. I don't think so either.

A lot of people here think this is no problem because after a while Metrolinx will just slash the fare and turn it into a useful commuter line. Really? Governments HATE admitting to mistakes. The people running the UPE will be perfectly happy running empty trains and burning taxpayer money. I think it's more likely that the Tories will get into power and mothball the whole line, than that the government will abandon this cockamamie scheme and turn it into a real transit line. Making that happen is going to require some heavy lobbying by the City and others, I think.
 
the city did lobby and mcguinty shot it down... But there is a new sheriff and she is advocating more public transit.. this is a easy way to put our money where her mouth is.
 
bleu said:
of course.
however, will you still take it if you are travelling with one colleague? Will you still take it from where you live for a vacation?
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We have talked about this here at the office. Our general consensus (assuming a one-way fare of $20 - $25) was that we would use it if 1 or 2 of us was travelling together on business. It would be cheaper than a cab + tip and far more predictable in terms of travel time. 3 or more we would have to discuss it.

That said, most of our trips are solo and we expect that it will actually be company policy for our company that airport to downtown (and downtown to airport trips) be taken via the new train unless there are 3 or more people at which time it would be at the discretion of the travellers.

Of course we are also encouraging people travelling to Montreal to take the 747 bus service instead of cabs.
 
k10ery said:
Plus, Metrolinx is committed to full cost recovery, including capital costs.
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Are they? They've said they would ... but I don't see a huge downside, to them coming out and saying "on further review, we've felt it made more sense to price the service to maximize ridership and eliminate polluting vehicles from Toronto roads, so cost recovery will be similar to other GO routes.".
 
sixrings said:
I don't think the liberals can wait for it to fail to convert it... If they want to tax via revenue tools the citizens of Toronto they are going to need to be able to provide some quick turnaround on infrastructure that residents can use. Currently the line is made for business travelers. that is just salt on a wound for residents who will be paying more in tolls, sales tax or whatever else. Convert it, and make the people happy.
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I agree, to a certain extent. I think it should be run as a semi-premium service until the Georgetown corridor is electrified, but after some sort of GO REX system is implemented, it should become a branch of that system, rather than continue to be independent.

The 2+ years between opening and electrification should be enough time to test the viability of the 'premium' model. By the time the electrification is complete, the ARL should be re-evaluated, and rolled into GO REX if it isn't close to turning a profit, or at the very least at comparable subsidization levels to other GO routes.

I suspect that the premium model will fail, and will require even large subsidies than the rest of the current GO train system, and will be terminated (conveniently) when electrification is complete.
 
gweed123 said:
I suspect that the premium model will fail, and will require even large subsidies than the rest of the current GO train system, and will be terminated (conveniently) when electrification is complete.
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Are there any other cities that have had premium airport service that have then cut it?

I wouldn't be surprised if ultimately, additional stations were added at Eglinton and Queen/King, and an electrified small frequent train was run out to Weston, or even Brampton. But I don't see that it would displace the airport express service, simply supplement it. (And I'm sure you could run it without having to add more track ... if you have the express train leave at 6:00 6:15 6:30 6:45, I don't see any reason the local service couldn't leave at 6:05 6:20 6:35 and run on the same track without interfering with the following express.
 
innsertnamehere said:
They have always stated that a stop will be added at Eglinton when the crosstown opens, BTW.
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For the Air Rail link? I don't think so. They've talked about a GO stop...

Now if the current service continues to operate in the same manner ... I'd expect that after 5-6 years of service they'd ditch Weston for the Air Rail link, and then substitute Eglinton. I can't imagine they really want to slow the express service down with more stops.
 
nfitz said:
Are they? They've said they would ... but I don't see a huge downside, to them coming out and saying "on further review, we've felt it made more sense to price the service to maximize ridership and eliminate polluting vehicles from Toronto roads, so cost recovery will be similar to other GO routes.".
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It could happen, but I think it will have to be forced on them. These are the folks that said a Queen/King stations is impossible because you can't stop 10-car trains there. Transit for Toronto is just not part of their thinking.

I was talking to somebody today who lives in Roncesvalles and works in Leslieville. It wouldn't take me too many months doing that on the 501, with a perfectly good rail corridor going to waste, before I'd be sending letterbombs out to Metrolinx.

(Metrolinx: If you're monitoring, that was a joke. You too, CSIS.)
 
nfitz:

They should forget about Weston and put one at Mt. Dennis instead, but of course a certain neigbourhood is going to go apesh*t over their indignity as a result.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
nfitz:

They should forget about Weston and put one at Mt. Dennis instead, but of course a certain neigbourhood is going to go apesh*t over their indignity as a result.
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I 100% agree. They need to base it on usage. If the good people of Weston don't come up with the ridership for a $25 fare to Union or to Pearson then you start reducing the number of trains that stop there. And if that doesn't work, you don't stop.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Of course Metrolinx has set the fee but are choosing not to state it....
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No, actually they haven't set a fee yet.

They have run simulations with a number of different pricing "targets", but have not settled on a final price. And it looks like they may not until a couple of months before the opening, as they are also getting pressure from the politicians up above as well.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
How could they have not already done these simulations?

They may not know the price exactly but certainly know the rough price within a dollar or two. Why can't they state the minimum/maximum it will cost to give the public an idea about the service and whether it will be of any value to them? Hell, they won't even tell anybody if the people who have ridden the TTC to catch the liner whether that fare will be deducted from their UP fare.

Isn't it prudent when constructing a rail corridor to know how much your revenue on the line will be BEFORE you start building it so you don't have a Mirabel on your hands? That is just further proof that this line is being built exclusively for the PanAm Games to save Toronto the embarassment of not having a rail line to Pearson.
 
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