Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

ShonTron said:
Exactly. Just like Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Vancouver.
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??? I don't recall any express trains to Chicago, LA, New York (except Newark), Seattle or Vancouver. Chicago has a regular EL line. LA as far as I recall has a BRT that gets near the airport, then a shuttle to the airport. Seattle has LRT, Vancouver has their Skytrain, JFK has the same technology as Vancouver Skytrain that then connects to the furthest end of the subway system, and I don't recall anything to LaGuardia. This isn't comparable to what Toronto is building (and what London Heathrow or London Gatwick have). It's more comparable to the Picadilly line in London having stops at Heathrow.

Can't speak to Portland or San Francisco - haven't been to either.

Edit ... hang-on ... perhaps that was your point. That all of these cities survive very well without express rail.
 
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nfitz said:
??? I don't recall any express trains to Chicago, LA, New York (except Newark), Seattle or Vancouver. Chicago has a regular EL line. LA as far as I recall has a BRT that gets near the airport, then a shuttle to the airport. Seattle has LRT, Vancouver has their Skytrain, JFK has the same technology as Vancouver Skytrain that then connects to the furthest end of the subway system, and I don't recall anything to LaGuardia. This isn't comparable to what Toronto is building (and what London Heathrow or London Gatwick have). It's more comparable to the Picadilly line in London having stops at Heathrow.

Can't speak to Portland or San Francisco - haven't been to either.

Edit ... hang-on ... perhaps that was your point. That all of these cities survive very well without express rail.
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LaGuardia has zilch. Nothing more than a few bus routes. Even the TTC has more with the Airport Rocket.
 
CDL.TO said:
For the talk of Heathrow, there is not just the Heathrow Express, but the Heathrow Connect service to Paddington that makes 5 intermediate stops at half the price. Unfortunately, it seems impossible to find ridership numbers.

If we look at the "21 most competitive cities*" (according to the Economist), 18 have rail links to their primary international airport, but only 5 have "premium express" rail links. Only one has a "premium express" rail link without a cheaper, local train alternative (Hong Kong).

Premium rail links are the exception, not the rule.

*(20th place was a tie, hence 21)
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In Hong Kong you can take a bus (S1) to Tung Chung station which is a few km from the airport, then a regular subway train (Tung Chung line), which is much cheaper than the Airport Express.

The huge problem in my mind with the Toronto airport rail link is there are a massive number of people working in the area around the airport in Mississauga (more than most cities I can think of) causing severe traffic problems in rush hour from reverse commute traffic. Lowering the airport rail link fares and running longer trains would help encourage airport workers to use the service. Also there needs to be an equivalent quality of service (at least 15 minutes) to Brampton, but Metrolinx has not promised any significant service improvements for Brampton.

Extending the Eglinton LRT to the airport could potentially provide a non-premium service primarily aimed at people who work in Mississauga, and could connect to improved Kitchener GO train service at Eglinton/Weston Rd.
 
Not sure why the focus seems to be on the ARL when the all day two way GO service that should come with the corridor up grades will probably make everyone forget about wanting to take the ARL.
 
The grand plan was to build a GO Station at Woodbine Racetrack where people would be able to transfer to the Finch West LRT for the last leg to the airport. I feel that our energy is best directed at advocating for that vision to be realized sooner rather than later.
 
k10ery said:
DRL-Lite is dead already. Metrolinx shot it down IN AN EMAIL.

http://www.thestar.com/news/transportation/article/1159887--province-won-t-slow-airport-train-by-adding-more-stops#.T4Yi8-JJpDk.twitter

You have to admire the logic of their response. "If we add more stops, our express train wouldn't be very fast any more."

Edit: The Star is now guessing the fare will be $35, btw. Crazy.
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Nice misquote! The star says
The 25-minute trip is expected to cost $15 to $35
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No one knows if the oft noted price of around $20 will end up being the case (still a few years from launch) so the star has given a range.....not an estimate of $35.....that is as wrong as reading the same article and making the proclamation that "the price has been cut to $15!”
 
Voltz said:
Not sure why the focus seems to be on the ARL when the all day two way GO service that should come with the corridor up grades will probably make everyone forget about wanting to take the ARL.
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All day go service with an airport people mover at Malton and you have affordable airport service from, both, Toronto and Brampton-Georgetown-Guelph-KW.

Then extend the people mover to the south end of the airport and you can link to the transit being built there too.
 
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Here is a local paper's story on the matter.

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news/article/1334297--all-day-go-service-to-brampton-may-be-delayed

Interesting (and disappointing) tidbit at the end:

But the Clean Train Coalition, a residents’ group pushing for electric GO trains on the corridor, says it has learned that improvements to commuter service will actually be delayed because of the airport train.
The CTC says the GO line expansion has been scaled back from four tracks to three. Two of those tracks will be used to run the two-way ARL, delaying all-day commuter service to Brampton and Georgetown by at least three years.Metrolinx said it has clearly communicated its plan to install one of three new tracks later.
“A fourth track will not be installed in time for opening day for the ARL in 2015. When the ARL opens there will be a total of three tracks in the Kitchener corridor. The fourth track will be installed at a later date,” Edwards wrote.
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TOareaFan said:
Here is a local paper's story on the matter.

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news/article/1334297--all-day-go-service-to-brampton-may-be-delayed

Interesting (and disappointing) tidbit at the end:
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Ah yes, the Clean Train Coalition. They have an interesting way of spinning the "news".

If they actually spent half of their efforts on improving transit service in their neck of the woods - read: Weston - they might have actually gotten somewhere. Instead, they are seen as a bunch of spoiled NIMBYs who keep issuing sliding targets for the various Governments to try and meet.

For the record, the plan was always that there were going to be three tracks up to where the branch to the Airport turned off. There is lots of capacity within those three tracks to handle the 15 minute ARL service, the enhanced GO service (starting with an additional 10 rush hour trains per day on top of what is already there) and the enhanced VIA service (should it actually happen). The fourth and final track was for expansion, whenever it was needed in the future.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
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RedRocket191 said:
The grand plan was to build a GO Station at Woodbine Racetrack where people would be able to transfer to the Finch West LRT for the last leg to the airport. I feel that our energy is best directed at advocating for that vision to be realized sooner rather than later.
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I agree with doing this, decent all day service on the GO line combined with a decent connection to the Airport would lead to calls for the ARL to be shut down to get out of GO's way.

With such GO service, I would just leave the ARL the way it is now and let it sink or swim on its own.
 
Voltz said:
I agree with doing this, decent all day service on the GO line combined with a decent connection to the Airport would lead to calls for the ARL to be shut down to get out of GO's way.

With such GO service, I would just leave the ARL the way it is now and let it sink or swim on its own.
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I partially agree....I just don't see why the new station at Woodbine is needed.........as I have noted, the station at Malton is plenty close to the airport and, instead of building a new station at Woodbine, investing that money in improving/expanding the Airport People Mover to Malton, in the north, and Eglington in the south would serve/benefit far more people and provide the same sort of GO/Airport interlink.
 
TOareaFan said:
Nice misquote! The star says

No one knows if the oft noted price of around $20 will end up being the case (still a few years from launch) so the star has given a range.....not an estimate of $35.....that is as wrong as reading the same article and making the proclamation that "the price has been cut to $15!”
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I imagine $35 is the estimate of a one-way full fare and $15 a discounted fare.

The original idea in 1995 was $22. In 2015, with inflation, that will be $33.

Remember this project is supposed to cover its capital as well as operating costs - unlike any other rail transit project in the history of Canada!
 
smallspy said:
Ah yes, the Clean Train Coalition. They have an interesting way of spinning the "news".

If they actually spent half of their efforts on improving transit service in their neck of the woods - read: Weston - they might have actually gotten somewhere. Instead, they are seen as a bunch of spoiled NIMBYs who keep issuing sliding targets for the various Governments to try and meet.

For the record, the plan was always that there were going to be three tracks up to where the branch to the Airport turned off. There is lots of capacity within those three tracks to handle the 15 minute ARL service, the enhanced GO service (starting with an additional 10 rush hour trains per day on top of what is already there) and the enhanced VIA service (should it actually happen). The fourth and final track was for expansion, whenever it was needed in the future.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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I have never been a fan of CTC and their approach....and get that they "spin" things....and perhaps I got a bit crazy with the bolding/underlining....what I should have highlighted (to elicit information/response) was just the part about a 3 year delay to the all day service.....is this at all accurate?
 
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