jcam
Active Member
I thought Melbourne's downtown casino was pretty successful, am I wrong??
Toronto Union Park | 303.26m | 58s | Oxford Properties | Pelli Clarke Pelli
- Thread starter Conrad Black
- Start date
unimaginative2
Senior Member
It is, and Melbourne's downtown is very far from dead. In fact, we have quite a bit to learn from them.
I notice that this includes a fairly sizable expansion of the convention centre. This is probably a good thing, given that the MTCC is a bit undersized for major conventions.
I'd also add that the amount of condo space in this development is rather small by recent Toronto standards. I'm guessing that they're anticipating a market slowdown, and Oxford also has deep enough pockets that they're willing to forgo the quick cash infusion that condos can provide for developers.
I notice that this includes a fairly sizable expansion of the convention centre. This is probably a good thing, given that the MTCC is a bit undersized for major conventions.
I'd also add that the amount of condo space in this development is rather small by recent Toronto standards. I'm guessing that they're anticipating a market slowdown, and Oxford also has deep enough pockets that they're willing to forgo the quick cash infusion that condos can provide for developers.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
I didn't even know melbourne's casino existed. I just kept thinking of cities like Niagra falls NY, Detroit, etc. that have horrid downtowns with casinos in them.
CityPlaceN1
Senior Member
Amazing.
mp_au
New Member
As a former resident of Melbourne I can assure you the Casino was not built downtown. It is built on a former industrial site across the river - in a very similar position to Exhibition Place.
And that is where any Casino that is in the area should be. Not in the downtown core.
Also, 4000 spaces and a ginormous casino...where the heck are the cars going to travel in that area???? Spadina is already a parking lot most afternoons, this would swamp that area.
Vaughan is spot on.
TOareaFan
Superstar
How were their downtowns before the casinos? Did the casinos kill the dts or did they just fail to revive them?
I like the look of this but I think this will make people regret killing the Front Street extension (if they don't already).
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
unimaginative:
The rendering isn't very clear, but it would seem that the "park" element is on top of a podium and not at grade (at least along Front Street).
AoD
The rendering isn't very clear, but it would seem that the "park" element is on top of a podium and not at grade (at least along Front Street).
AoD
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
The park over the railway plan indicates that the plan is a complete non starter. Many people here (including myself) have suggested decking over the central railway tracks and have constantly gotten the same reply. Unless and until the entire USRC is electrified and all trains running through the area are using locomotives capable of running on electric power; then we can not cover the tracks due to the need to exhaust the diesel fumes from the trains.
TonyV
Senior Member
It looks to me like a good Foster project.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
why can the same trains go through tunnels then? you would need some sort of exhaust system to pump the fumes out, but this is completely possible.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Two huge proposals (ProjectCore and Oxford) totaling 3-5 billion dollars for Toronto in the last week...thats one hot potato for Adam Vaughan
sixrings
Senior Member
if we got two iconic looking office buildings out of this deal Id be sold. First of all we need more offices downtown. Second of all when we do get offices they are BOXES. Telus, The building across from Telus, The one designed under ICE, Bay Addelaide has TWO boxes... and even the RBC building...
Tewder
Senior Member
Actually, at first glance, I have far less issue with this grand scheme than I do with the Gehry/Mirvish scheme....
Although this might technically be considered 'downtown' to some we should not ignore the reality of the immediate surrounding context which is that of railway lands! This is not the old traditional downtown of Yonge Street, Bloor, King or Queen Streets West where a casino would most definitely wreak havoc... no, this is a reclaimed area that has already been given over to massive tourist infrastructure (CN Tower, Convention Centre, Round House, Aquarium etc)... so really, where's the harm in developing this tourist precinct even further?
If so, doesn't it actually make sense to add a casino into the mix, capitalizing on its positive attributes by adding to the critical mass of tourist layers that already exist, and containing any negative social attributes by anchoring it within a tourist context that for all intents and purposes is already as connected to the real 'Downtown' as the Exhibition grounds are anyway? Makes sense to me... and from this perspective I say go big or go home, let's continue to build a central tourist zone in the city that has some 'meat and potatoes' to it!
Although this might technically be considered 'downtown' to some we should not ignore the reality of the immediate surrounding context which is that of railway lands! This is not the old traditional downtown of Yonge Street, Bloor, King or Queen Streets West where a casino would most definitely wreak havoc... no, this is a reclaimed area that has already been given over to massive tourist infrastructure (CN Tower, Convention Centre, Round House, Aquarium etc)... so really, where's the harm in developing this tourist precinct even further?
If so, doesn't it actually make sense to add a casino into the mix, capitalizing on its positive attributes by adding to the critical mass of tourist layers that already exist, and containing any negative social attributes by anchoring it within a tourist context that for all intents and purposes is already as connected to the real 'Downtown' as the Exhibition grounds are anyway? Makes sense to me... and from this perspective I say go big or go home, let's continue to build a central tourist zone in the city that has some 'meat and potatoes' to it!
scrapergeek
Active Member
Exhaust venting. If I recall correctly from my time in London, England, not all their lines into Euston Station are electrified, and diesel trains enter the station thought similar tunnels and covered structures.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Hmm...then I'm not sure how good of a job this will do at its claimed role of bridging the tracks. I wonder how tall this podium will be. I assume at least John Street will continue to cross as it does now. Anyway, replacing an open trench with a park is always a nice trade-off.
I'm all for electrification, but this really isn't a problem here. The tunnel isn't very long: it's no longer than the covered section at Central Station in Montreal, for example. The entire Empire Connection/West Side Line under Riverside Park in New York isn't electrified. They just included frequent (and fairly unobtrusive) vents.
I must admit to being slightly sad to see the MTCC go. I walked past it every day and it's pretty awful to the street. But like with the Hudson's Bay Centre, there's a little place in my heart for 1970s concrete mixed-use megaprojects. Yes, yes, I know. I need to see a cardiologist.