buildup
Senior Member
aklay: What would be examples of crimes inside a casino?
Toronto Union Park | 303.26m | 58s | Oxford Properties | Pelli Clarke Pelli
- Thread starter Conrad Black
- Start date
alklay
Senior Member
Just for example, there is lots of money laundering at casinos and plenty of ATM frauds.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
I still have yet to see evidence that violent crime - the kind that affects innocent bystanders and lowers property values - rises significantly in neighbourhoods after a casino opens. Not crime perpetrated inside a casino, but out on the streets.
The Melbourne example cited doesn't suggest anything about crime rising in downtown Melbourne, as a whole, following the opening of the casino.
My final point in this matter is that casinos already exist in Ontario and a casino is coming to somewhere in the GTA, whether we like it or not. If you believe that casinos cause negative effects to communities (I don't), then, basically, by saying 'no' to a casino downtown, you are willing to shunt those problems onto somebody else.
The Melbourne example cited doesn't suggest anything about crime rising in downtown Melbourne, as a whole, following the opening of the casino.
My final point in this matter is that casinos already exist in Ontario and a casino is coming to somewhere in the GTA, whether we like it or not. If you believe that casinos cause negative effects to communities (I don't), then, basically, by saying 'no' to a casino downtown, you are willing to shunt those problems onto somebody else.
cogito ergo
Active Member
The whole debate reminds me of "Sunday Shopping" issue some years ago.
Naysayers didn't change a bit from then, even their arguments are as valid as they are "new".
Relax people, live a little. Have a quick trip to Vagas maybe, loose a few bucks, come back happy, entertained and safe!
Then you might think, why the hell did I have to fly thousands of miles to have this kind of fun?
Naysayers didn't change a bit from then, even their arguments are as valid as they are "new".
Relax people, live a little. Have a quick trip to Vagas maybe, loose a few bucks, come back happy, entertained and safe!
Then you might think, why the hell did I have to fly thousands of miles to have this kind of fun?
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Lenser
Senior Member
As good a working definition of Nimbyism as ever I've heard. Meaning it's utterly commonplace.
Tewder
Senior Member
Agreed... and if we are going to get a casino it belongs in this part of downtown where it is accessible to tourists and away from any established neighbourhood (relatively speaking).
sixrings
Senior Member
If I see a used car that I know has potential buyers I don't buy it just to save someone else the headache of it. It is Toronto's responsibility to look out for itself and the job of others themselves.
sixrings
Senior Member
The problem I have with this comment and I lived in one of the oldest condos in the entertainment disctrict at one time is that there is a neighbourhood there whether you describe it as "established" or not. I too was frustrated with condo owners who bought in the area then complained about the clubs. why would you move here knowing that the clubs were here and then complain? If the casino had been here \I wouldn't care what the new condo owners think, however this is a case of a casino potentially coming into a area. A few pages back someone reported that City PLace residents are 99% against the development. It doesn't seem fair to ignore those people. If the casino wants to be in Toronto then it should be at woodbine. If the casino owners don't want that then they can go somewhere else. But I don't think its "respect for taxpayers" when all the "tax payers" in the area are basically screaming NO we don't want a casino.
Tewder
Senior Member
We're talking about the area immediately adjacent to the CN Tower/Convention Centre/Aquarium. There is already enormous tourist infrastructure here with lots of hotels etc. You can't live in or near this precinct and expect that any and all future development will be halted unless approved by you. Again, this is crass nimbyism at its worst.
... and it doesn't help your case to mince words about what constitutes an established neighbourhood. You know very well what is meant by this. This area though is zoned mixed-use/commercial and is prime for the very type of development being proposed, casino or no.
... and it doesn't help your case to mince words about what constitutes an established neighbourhood. You know very well what is meant by this. This area though is zoned mixed-use/commercial and is prime for the very type of development being proposed, casino or no.
sixrings
Senior Member
I lived at 71 simcoe street. Close enough?????
Tewder
Senior Member
Guess what? You lived downtown, not in a residential neighbourhood! It also happens to be blocks away from the area we're discussing, which again is an enormous tourist precinct.
sixrings
Senior Member
blocks??? It is one major intersection south.. And downtown intersections are very small. I lived basically between king and Wellsley. The proposal is for FRONT street. Between theatre park the mirvish condos the Ritz, there will be plenty of people within 5 minute walk which would disagree with you.
RC8
Senior Member
Going from basically zero crimes in the convention centre area to several hundreds every year would be dearly felt by the community. The casino would literally be a 10 second walk from thousands of people's and hundreds of families' homes.
To say that if it's not us it's someone else is a ridiculous irrational argument. There's neighbourhoods who have weighed in the consequences and decided they want this. Let them have it.
Makes sense, let's put it where 99% of people oppose a casino in one of the most productive areas of the city,
It would be silly to put this complex a 10 minute drive from Pearson International Airport where the neighbourhood and existent businesses are actually clamouring for it...
Mithras
Active Member
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Toronto is going to shoulder the brunt of negatives regardless of where the Casino eventually ends up. The city may as well maximize the positives. The MTCC site is the only one that truly maximizes the positives and minimizes the negatives. Where is CAMH? a short walk away for problem gamblers. Where is there already heavy tourist infrastructure and transit? Right there at the site. Everything works for this site. 99% of CityPlace might be against it but how many of them actually OWN those units? It is the most transient project in the city, statistically they will ALL be gone by the time this came around anyways...
You can put this in Vaughn or Woodbine and get some positive and some negative or you can put it at the MTCC and get the same negative but multiply the positives.
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DtTO
Active Member
99% of Cityplace residents oppose a casino? More like 99% of the vocal NIMBYs oppose it, which isn't the least bit surprising. I guess it's now normal for the "no" side to make up figures though. Why are Ritz residents even brought into the equation? They knowingly chose to live on top of a hotel. Same with ED residents. It's called the Entertainment District for a reason! I find it ironic that the same people arguing against the casino will also argue against destroying entertainment venues to make room for condos. If this isn't NIMBYism, I don't know what would be.
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