Toronto Union Park | 303.26m | 58s | Oxford Properties | Pelli Clarke Pelli

sixrings said:
Honestly Tewder it sounds like you would want a downtown casino even if the hosting fee was ZERO. It seems you just want a casino to add to the entertainment options of Toronto. Also some of your arguments to why you think people are against Casinos seem to me to be simply wrong. You blame the Presbyterian Toronto the Good for stopping the casino. I work in a food bank and am a pastor. I'm not naïve to think that somehow the church can stop all gambling. It happens online and at every convenience store. Like many, it wouldn't bother me, or at least not as much if we were getting one with the right price attached. In no ways does that mean I am an advocate for it, nor does it mean that I feel its my Gods given duty to be the fun police. However it seems you are willing to have one no matter what, no matter where and no matter what the cost.
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Sixrings, personally I could care less about a casino. My only concern is pulling the plug on something that could have big benefits in terms of development and revenue when it's only going to get built somewhere else (yet nearby) anyway. Remember, the casino is not up for debate, only the location. Again, i'd rather have it 'contained' within a tourist zone than put it anywhere that would risk destabilizing any neighbourhood, anywhere in the GTA.

... and as for the social ills of gambling, all the arguments are moot unless you want to ban gambling altogether. The bigger issue is the government's involvement to start with. As with alcohol they are trying to police the very things they make money from. Anybody else see a conflict of interest? It's like entrusting the fox the guard the hen house. If you really want better policing of these activities, and a more effective way to control the social ills we are concerned about, let the casino be run privately, freeing the government to regulate and police the activities appropriately.
 
RC8 said:
Yup, all the mental health professionals and researchers are clearly idiots. If only they were as enlightened as yourself.

...

I genuinely believe that building this casino where proposed and in the shape in which it is being proposed will lead to crime and loss of lives that wouldn't otherwise occur.
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Sorry, but your "genuine belief" is not going to hold up unless you can provide evidence that another, comparable city opening a comparable casino in a comparable area experienced crime and loss of life in the area before and after the casino opened. So far you have yet to show me any evidence of any kind.

Don't bother using Detroit or Windsor as examples since, as people have already said, these cities had crime and socioeconomic problems before the casino opened. Did Berlin experience any dramatic surge in crime after they opened their casino on Potsdamer Platz? What about when Caesar's opened their casino on Leicester Square in London? TrickyRicky's example of Philadelphia is the best example that's been provided so far, and the evidence from that city is that crime and social problems did not increase.
 
yyzer said:
There are plenty of people who are pro-casino, who are in no way employed by developers or casino companies...

Your first point misses the mark, in that while the casino is not specifically needed for the revitalization of the convention centre, it would in fact help to maximize that revitalization...

Your second point also misses the mark in that utilizing a downtown location for an increase in convention business is hardly 'giving the finger' to city building, but is in fact enhancing Toronto's attractiveness to the world's convention and tourism industry..not every street in the city is destined to be quiet residential with a complimentary podium of retail....

I haven't seen or heard a single anti-casino argument which isn't spurious and filled with lies and half-truths...

And no, I don't gamble, I don't even like casinos, but I can definitely see a big win for the city in the global context if we ever got one downtown...
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Clap Clap Clap Clap.
 
That said, I think that there will be increased criminal activity of the less visible sort - i.e. racketeering and other gang-related activities, simply because gambling is a business opportunity for them.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
That said, I think that there will be increased criminal activity of the less visible sort - i.e. racketeering and other gang-related activities, simply because gambling is a business opportunity for them.

AoD
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Personally, I don't think a full blown resort casino will add to that. Toronto is filled with illegal gambling dens.. I've heard of a few operating out of innocuous houses in south Etobicoke. That said, I believe an actual casino downtown will cause the loss of these 'businesses' and make everything safer as a result. An illegal gambling den operated by the Triads, Yakuza or Hell's Angels is far more dangerous than a legitimate resort operated by a legitimate company.

I am surprised that this was not brought into discussions. Hasn't the police been busting a few of these dens lately? If only they knew the true extent of these operations.
 
Hipster Duck said:
Sorry, but your "genuine belief" is not going to hold up unless you can provide evidence that another, comparable city opening a comparable casino in a comparable area experienced crime and loss of life in the area before and after the casino opened. So far you have yet to show me any evidence of any kind.

Don't bother using Detroit or Windsor as examples since, as people have already said, these cities had crime and socioeconomic problems before the casino opened. Did Berlin experience any dramatic surge in crime after they opened their casino on Potsdamer Platz? What about when Caesar's opened their casino on Leicester Square in London? TrickyRicky's example of Philadelphia is the best example that's been provided so far, and the evidence from that city is that crime and social problems did not increase.
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http://www.theage.com.au/national/thousands-of-crimes-at-crown-20091207-kfcb.html
 
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...m_toronto_and_ontario_progambling_forces.html

the lion’s share of the global profits of companies such as Las Vegas Sands Corp., MGM and Wynn (all vying for the Toronto casino) now come from Macau — a magnet for corruption and organized crime far beyond the reach of these same U.S. regulators.
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This is the reason why the U.S. Justice Department and the Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) have Sheldon Adelson’s Sands empire under investigation for bribery and corruption. And why his company stated recently that it “likely” violated the federal Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which outlaws the bribery of foreign officials, according to a SEC filing.
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Nor is Sands alone. Wynn Resorts has been making headlines in its own bribery and corruption scandal.
MGM, too, is under an order from authorities to leave Atlantic City, due to unscrupulous practices uncovered in a scathing report by the New Jersey attorney general. Regulators objected to MGM’s pursuit of a partnership with a notorious figure with deep links to organized crime in Macau. The investigation also found that MGM’s senior management deliberately misled regulators to conceal the known organized crime links of its partners.
So, while alarm bells are ringing with U.S. state and federal governments and regulators, what are the governments of Toronto and Ontario doing? Inviting these companies to bring their corrupt business practices here.
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Automation Gallery said:
Yup, whatever.............The generally left-wing Age is frequently compared with Britain's leftist Guardian newspaper
That says it all
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Are you saying this is not true?

Over a period of three years from mid-2003 to mid-2006 3125 offences were committed within the Crown Casino complex, the report said.

The offences included 445 assaults, two kidnappings or abductions, eight sex offences (not rape), 32 cases of handling stolen goods, 13 weapons offences and 344 cases of theft from cars.
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Where's the bit where opinion plays a relevant role on that note?
 
Big Daddy said:
^ excerpt from above article: "Mark Zirnsak of the InterChurch Gambling Taskforce said the police report ''confirms the taskforce's view that casinos are always going to be magnets for criminal activities''.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/thousands-of-crimes-at-crown-20091207-kfcb.html#ixzz2QYdzUnTM

Interesting note that needs to be considered.
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If there are over 1000 crimes taking place inside the casino, reported every year, you know the real figure is probably much, much higher because most people do not report crime, especially against organized crime figures. (they know the consequences of that) It may be mostly hidden from the general public but the crime is still there.
 
He asked the police chief of Las Vegas who reported that there has been no organized criminal activity as a result of the casinos? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

No seriously, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
 
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