Toronto Union Park | 303.26m | 58s | Oxford Properties | Pelli Clarke Pelli

ChristopherC said:
Why do people constantly smash skyscrapers in Asian cities? I understand that a lot of the skyscrapers in Asian cities are rather pointless and empty, but in a city like Toronto they wouldn't be. I also understand that Toronto is an amazing city that doesn't need to "copy" or "follow" the steps of other major cities. However it is worth mentioning that cities like Hong Kong and Dubai arguably have some of the nicest skylines in the world (much nicer than anything you would find in North America apart from NYC and maybe Chicago).

I know building skyscrapers isn't all about the effects it has on the skyline, but if a city needs them then why not make them look nice??? And what do people not like about the ones in UAE and major Asian cities (Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc.)
Click to expand...

I hate Dubia's skyline ... and that of many Asian cities ... to me its not the buildings on their own, some are great ! Its how they integrate with each other (ignore the ground level, which is generally terrible in Dubia ..) just in the skyline, so much contrast ... very little compliments ... quite the opposite of say a NYC or Chicago ..
 
Firstly, if we are talking about skylines, Hong Kong has the best skyline in the world. Some will argue that NYC has a better skyline but I personally think there is no area in NYC where you can take a picture of the ENTIRE skyline and make it look as good as the picture of Hong Kong's skyline from the mountain area (I think it is a mountain).

Now back to Toronto. The only reason I made that post was because people kept criticizing skyscrapers in asian cities which makes no sense to me. Yes most of the asian skylines are not nice because there are too many "crazy" looking skyscrapers but individually, they have got most of the best skyscrapers in the world. All im trying to say is that any city, including Toronto, would benefit from a project with the level of creativity and uniqueness of Burj Khalifa (obviously much shorter), Shanghai Tower, Shanghai World Financial Centre, Citic Plaza, Taipei 101 etc. Toronto seems to get so many "box" skyscrapers so no it isn't "a good thing" that Toronto never approves skyscrapers that are similar to ones you would see in Dubai, Hong Kong, Guangzhou. Oxford Place is unfortunately the only one but it will probably not remain the way it is because of its location. Or the same thing that happened to the M+G project will happen to Oxford Place.
 
Architecture speaks to the culture it is reflecting. It's no surprise that European, east Asian, Middle Eastern, and north American skyscrapers look different... and that's a good thing. I'm not a fan of the Dubai aesthetic, but that's ok. I'm north American to the core and it's the built form of Chicago, New York, Winnipeg, Toronto, and Los Angeles that speaks to me.

Dubai may not be my cup of tea, but it's beneficial to recognize that it speaks to their culture... and that's what matters. It would be a shame if they simply mimicked us or Europe rather than design buildings that spoke to them.

That said, Toronto could do with a little more flair and move beyond its rigid conservatism in design. The original Foster design was a breath of fresh air. It was flamboyant yet still managed to be elegant. It's a design that would still look great 50 years from now.
 
Last edited:
I agree with all of what you say above. I want to see timeless elegance rise on our skyline as well, and that to me means we can afford to see more adventure than we are currently getting with such ultra-minimalism from the likes of the two Southcore Financial Centre office towers. The Delta in the very same complex is a great example of what I believe we can afford; simple gestures that express some creativity while not screaming "look at me". I prefer the wink and confident smile.

42
 
r2siv said:
Other than the Burj Khalifa, the Dubai skyline is not that impressive. It's just one road with buildings flanking it.
Click to expand...

you mean Burj Al Arab is doesn't look impressive?

speaking of one road with building, aren't the vast majority of Toronto's skyscrapers flanking the Bay/Yonge corridor?
 
ChristopherC said:
people kept criticizing skyscrapers in asian cities which makes no sense to me. Yes most of the asian skylines are not nice because there are too many "crazy" looking skyscrapers but individually, they have got most of the best skyscrapers in the world. All im trying to say is that any city, including Toronto, would benefit from a project with the level of creativity and uniqueness of Burj Khalifa (obviously much shorter), Shanghai Tower, Shanghai World Financial Centre, Citic Plaza, Taipei 101 etc. Toronto seems to get so many "box" skyscrapers so no it isn't "a good thing" that Toronto never approves skyscrapers that are similar to ones you would see in Dubai, Hong Kong, Guangzhou. Oxford Place is unfortunately the only one but it will probably not remain the way it is because of its location. Or the same thing that happened to the M+G project will happen to Oxford Place.
Click to expand...

I call that collective delusion. It is in Asia, it must be bad (especially when it is in China because it shouldn't have anything super nice that Toronto doesn't). If it looks good, it must be bad in quality. People will find all sorts of way to justify their sense of superiority.

Ask people around the world whose skyline is more impressive, Shanghai, Hong Kong, or Toronto.
Like you said, Toronto definitely can benefit from some totally crazy buildings outside most Torontonian's comfort zone. Honestly, without the CN tower, Toronto has a very unrecognizable skyline with a bunch of flat top not so tall boxes congregated on a small area that is CBD.

This is what Shanghai built over 20 years of time. Notice on the lower side of the river in the photo is the bund, which one of the world's largest collection of art décor buildings (total number 52).
http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/08/26-years-of-growth-shanghai-then-and-now/100569/
 
ksun said:
you mean Burj Al Arab is doesn't look impressive?

speaking of one road with building, aren't the vast majority of Toronto's skyscrapers flanking the Bay/Yonge corridor?
Click to expand...

It's pretty disingenuous to compare's Toronto's form with Dubai's, even if the bulk of the towers here are strung out up Bay and Yonge. We do have another major axis of skyscrapers, and that's generally along the lake shore, but it takes more than skyscrapers to make a livable city, and in that regard we have a whole fabric here, there, and everywhere. This is a real, cosmopolitan city, not some over-planned mirage based on excessive oil money, scant regard for street life, and amusement park rules of design.

42
 
ksun - there's no need to get overly defensive when people criticise Asian city skylines - people like different things
 
interchange42 said:
It's pretty disingenuous to compare's Toronto's form with Dubai's, even if the bulk of the towers here are strung out up Bay and Yonge. We do have another major axis of skyscrapers, and that's generally along the lake shore, but it takes more than skyscrapers to make a livable city, and in that regard we have a whole fabric here, there, and everywhere. This is a real, cosmopolitan city, not some over-planned mirage based on excessive oil money, scant regard for street life, and amusement park rules of design.

42
Click to expand...

I totally agree with your point, but we are only talking about buildings and skyline here, not where one wants to live.
Quality of life or morals shouldn't be taken into consideration. Liking the architecture and living a city can be two completely different things.
 
ksun said:
This is what Shanghai built over 20 years of time. Notice on the lower side of the river in the photo is the bund, which one of the world's largest collection of art décor buildings (total number 52).
http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/08/26-years-of-growth-shanghai-then-and-now/100569/
Click to expand...

No doubt Shanghai has some great new buildings, along with some tacky crap like every city has (including Toronto), but the Pudong area at street level? If that's the price of supertall growth, I don't want that for Toronto. I want a city that remains inviting to walk and cycle through, and one that retains the best of our heritage.

42
 
ksun said:
I totally agree with your point, but we are only talking about buildings and skyline here, not where one wants to live.
Quality of life or morals shouldn't be taken into consideration. Liking the architecture and living a city can be two completely different things.
Click to expand...

Huh? Why are we divorcing skyline drama from quality of life? Skyline aspirations should not come at any cost; every project needs to work at ground level and in regard to its neighbourhood too.

42
 
ChesterCopperpot said:
ksun - there's no need to get overly defensive when people criticise Asian city skylines - people like different things
Click to expand...

You are right - people like different things.
But if someone ever tried to criticize and dismiss Toronto's skyline and buildings as utterly disastrous, like many do to Asian cities, I doubt most on this forum will say calmly "It is oK since people like different things".
I just wish people could talk about things more objectively instead of with such inveterate prejudice and self-congratulating.
 
interchange42 said:
Huh? Why are we divorcing skyline drama from quality of life? Skyline aspirations should not come at any cost; every project needs to work at ground level and in regard to its neighbourhood too.

42
Click to expand...

Yes, ground level is important, but you are looking at the CBD of Shanghai, is there tons of interesting life happening near King and Bay on the weekends, or la defence? It is the same in every city. Most CBDs don't has as much life as older residential areas..

Lujiazui has a major mall just near those towers with tons of shoppers, the riverfront has tens of thousand of tourists every single day on the waterfront promenade lined with cafes and restaurants, and if I am not mistaken, there are museums, an apple store as well as some upscale retail near the world financial centre. That's probably more we can say about our financial district, where retail stores don't even open on the weekends. On the weekends, our financial district is almost dead quiet, with occasional people walking past it to the waterfront.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top