Toronto U Condominiums | 183.79m | 56s | Pemberton | a—A

[jaborandi]

What a short memory we all seem to have. It wasn't that long ago that pretty much the only retail on Bay Street between Dundas and College was car dealerships. There has been a significant change over the past few years and no doubt it will continue to evolve its own unique character as the new condos are erected. That said, it does seem like a step in the wrong direction to be building townhouses without street retail directly on Bay.

 

[Blixtein]

For what it's worth there's a decent coffee shop called Urbana at Bay and St. Joseph. For some reason I've always liked how 'dead' Bay St. seemed.

 

[Urban Shocker]

I don't see anything wrong with this stretch of Bay evolving a distinctive character either. When I moved here in 1970 it was pretty dead - other than for the car dealerships that jaborandi noted, and a few low rise buildings that housed smoke shops and Mom and Pop corner stores etc. - and I see a huge improvement with all the new residents living there. Sure, some of the buildings are pretty gruesome, but it's a work in progress ... for the youngish, downtown, get-up-and-go crowd who want to live there. Great location.

 

[yin_yang]

The middle section of Bay south of Gerrard North of Dundas needs serious work. There are three large parking lots, the EnWave smoke stack, sketchy bus station and that gross 'hotel on bay'. I'm sure it is only a matter of time for all of that to be redeveloped.

Does anyone know if the hospitals have claims to any of the land, especially the land near the Enwave stack/Sick Kids?

but this area has services so it seems less empty than upper bay. it's not asking for much, just some density to the west a bit with something cool (museum/shopping plaza/UofT landmark). bay just looks gross and sterile right now.

 

[interchange42]

It does have a feeling of being the back alley for both Yonge and University for much of its length. I'm hoping that along with the many buildings under construction and planned for the street, that the other parking lots get built on, and that the street itself comes in for a major landscaping redo sometime in the next few years: beside the new condos, it needs that too.

42

 

[Hipster Duck]

Sure, some of the buildings are pretty gruesome, but it's a work in progress ... for the youngish, downtown, get-up-and-go crowd who want to live there. Great location.

Bay street condos are mostly full of rich Ugg boot-wearing undergrad students whose parents would pay anything for them to live in a building with a doorman and those 30-something cubicle types who inundate you with conversations about all the planning that has to go into their upcoming wedding at coffee break. Not exactly the "get-up-and-go" crowd.

[/stereotyping]

 

[jaborandi]

Bay street condos are mostly full of rich Ugg boot-wearing undergrad students whose parents would pay anything for them to live in a building with a doorman and those 30-something cubicle types who inundate you with conversations about all the planning that has to go into their upcoming wedding at coffee break. Not exactly the "get-up-and-go" crowd.

[/stereotyping]

Who gets wed during a coffee break? Sounds a bit hurry-up-and-get-go-ish to me.

 

[unimaginative2]

A bakery may well open after these new condos are built, and maybe a new restaurant or other shop. The fact is, though, a few thousand condo residents aren't going to be able to support more than 4 or 5 shops, not a kilometre-long retail strip.

The problem with the streetfront retail obsession is that it is being built all over the city, but it's rarely being built very well. Existing successful, diverse retail strips (like Bloor at Bedford, among many others) are being torn down and replaced with daytime condo-serving businesses and chains.

 

[G_DOG]

who cares if this project has no retail.what are you missing? a subway,video store and dry cleaner and bank branch?no big deal, because thats what in every condo tower base anyway.

 

[jaborandi]

who cares if this project has no retail.what are you missing? a subway,video store and dry cleaner and bank branch?no big deal, because thats what in every condo tower base anyway.

I notice a Binns is opening on Bay in the Polo Phase 1 and it seems reasonable that more home furnishing shops will also open. Retail along Bay is not limited to the usual suspects. There is sign painter, drugstores, quite a few new eateries, medical clinics, travel agents, florists and those horrible little Nails shops that breed like rabbits. They all exist to serve the growing population and the variety of retail will contunue to grow to keep pace with the neighbourhood's needs. But as 42 so rightly pointed out, it really needs a co-hesive landscape plan.

Can anybody enlighten us why the dead zone between Gerrard and Dundas has seen almost no new development or development plans in the past 100 years?

 

[ProjectEnd]

who cares if this project has no retail.what are you missing? a subway,video store and dry cleaner and bank branch?no big deal, because thats what in every condo tower base anyway.

Theres a Subway in the next block...St. Mikes residents will have their sandwich woes remedied after all! Hooray!

I largely agree with the point that was made about wealthy, foreign, undergrad girls populating much of Bay around the university. Whether or not St. Mikes will take on much of this clientel really depends on the price-point.

 

[Urban Shocker]

When I visit friends who live in condos without retail cluttering up the ground floor of the building I think "lucky them". To a degree, this part of Bay Street isn't that much different from City Place - you're through the front door, up in the elevator, and home in an instant. Essentially it's a residential district. Does either place really need to be "made human" with a few token places to buy stuff?

 

[caltrane74]

I don't understand the big "hang ups" people have regarding Bay Street.

If you want to buy stuff or you want a "retail atmosphere" walk a block over to Yonge Street.

Or go to Yorkville.......

Do we want to turn Bay Street south of Queen into a retail district too?

 

[interchange42]

Can anybody enlighten us why the dead zone between Gerrard and Dundas has seen almost no new development or development plans in the past 100 years?

Here's my take on it Jabby:

Noisy Polluty Toronto Coach Terminal = failed condo across the street by the Conservatory Group several years ago
Giant Smokestack for the hospitals = visual blight and concern for what's in the smoke
LuCliff Place = just plain visual blight
Concrete monster parking garage with health care housing atop = brutalist eyesore to most

That said, that section of Bay will redevelop, it'll just happen last. I think by far the biggest impediment in the area is the Coach Terminal - if it moves down by Union Station then everything will change here quickly. In fact, some developer will scoop up that building to act as the fancy podium for their project quite quickly I imagine. (W Hotel anybody? - what the hell are the Starwood folks up to these days anyway? - isn't it about time there was a new misleading rumour about that?)

42

 

[Hypnotoad]

Bay street condos are mostly full of rich Ugg boot-wearing undergrad students whose parents would pay anything for them to live in a building with a doorman and those 30-something cubicle types who inundate you with conversations about all the planning that has to go into their upcoming wedding at coffee break. Not exactly the "get-up-and-go" crowd.

[/stereotyping]

You've nailed me to the tee, well except for the rich parents, 30-something, doorman, wedding plans, boots (don't even own boots), and cubicle parts. Other then that, you've described this Bay corridor dweller nearly perfectly.

Unsure if you were being factious or not, I’ll just point out that residents in this area are not as ubiquitous as you make them seem.

From my experience, the best retail on Bay is the Second Cup, Devil's Advocate and anything on Yonge or at Bloor. Not every street has to be lively and I think Bay does a great job of accommodating pedestrians (except for retail gravitation). Case in point - super wide sidewalks and all weather-protection covering along the entire stretch once Murano and RoCP2 are complete. The shops offer very little as far as invitation, unless you want a coffee, orthopaedic brace (sign me up!) or government publication.

Urban Shocker is partly right, though. Once you go up the elevator you're home and it is essentially a residential place. But how is this different then Erkshin, Redpath, St. Clair or Queen's Quay? It's not. There are a lot of options close by to shop/hang-out/dine. As has been mentioned, Bay St. is so close to Yonge, the Village, Bloor & Yorkville, Little Italy and access to every other section of the city. It works in that regard, with extra-wide sidewalks to (ugg)boot.