yin_yang
Active Member
it may have some hope if a few fashion stores move in, the yorkville fashion district should go a bit south to wellesley anyway.
I think Yorkville's next extension is likely going to be along Yorkville Avenue itself, south side opposite the soon to be built Four Seasons. After that Cumberland Street is the next likely candidate once Cumberland Terrace is redeveloped. I can't see the area moving down Bay as far as this project and Wellesley.
42
42
Sir Novelty Fashion
Senior Member
"Ground floor retail" has gone from a decent idea to an unhealthy fixation, especially in these parts. As Unimaginative says, not every street is destined to be a retail strip. Look at the waterfront. Townhomes are a perfectly valid way of meeting the street. So is a coffee social, hot dog roast, speed-dating session, or walk in the park. It doesn't have to be dry cleaners every time.
alklay
Senior Member
I am not quite sure how advocating for decent retail on Bay Street, just a block or two from Bloor, has been interpreted as an 'unhealthy fixation' on having dry cleaners on every street in the city. I am not advocating such.
Bay Street, as a main street, needs and deserves more people using the street and decent reasons for people to use the street (otherwise, it becomes - or remains - a lifeless car route with nothing more than dry cleaners).
Eyes on the street are important and they add vitality and life to an area. Townhomes simply do not do as a good a job as decent retail. The Bistro across from the Sutton Place does a better job of animating the street than a townhouse would ever.
yin_yang
Active Member
the rest of bay is decent...it is just that one area of condominiums to college! buildng some more large-scale retail would be appreciated
Hypnotoad
Senior Member
BINGO!
As a Bay St. corridor dweller I can tell you that Bay offers one thing: easy pedestrian access (super wide sidewalks) to bypass Yonge's crowds or quick punch up to Bloor or Yorkville.
"the rest of bay is decent...it is just that one area of condominiums to college! buildng some more large-scale retail would be appreciated"
The middle section of Bay south of Gerrard North of Dundas needs serious work. There are three large parking lots, the EnWave smoke stack, sketchy bus station and that gross 'hotel on bay'. I'm sure it is only a matter of time for all of that to be redeveloped.
Does anyone know if the hospitals have claims to any of the land, especially the land near the Enwave stack/Sick Kids?
Conrad Black
Senior Member
I too thought Bay needed help until I spent a week working nearby. During business hours the entire strip from Union to Bloor is quite busy. Only after hours and on the weekends does it seem quiet on the stretch north of Dundas and that's changing with the new condos popping up.
marcus_a_j
Senior Member
My sentiments exactly. I don't see the need to introduce nightlife or more diverse retail to Bay St. It is what it is, an express pedestrian route bypassing the hustle and bustle on Yonge St.
Mike in TO
Senior Member
The day time traffic on upper Bay is fairly busy with all the government offices at Bay/Wellesley.
I would imagine that once Murano (371 & 309 units) and Burano (458 units) are complete that will add some life to the College - Wellesley section. That will add a lot of new residents, plus I am expecting the quality of the retail units in these building to be higher than the recently built condos between Wellesley and Grosvenor. The glass atrium of the Burano and the small piazza could contain a great space for a restaurant or some other destination / gathering point.
At the very least the townhomes in the St. Michael's College project should be designed for live/work purposes... or have the corner units by the park and at the north-east corner of the site accomodate retail. A patio extending onto the north edge of the new park would be perfect.
I would imagine that once Murano (371 & 309 units) and Burano (458 units) are complete that will add some life to the College - Wellesley section. That will add a lot of new residents, plus I am expecting the quality of the retail units in these building to be higher than the recently built condos between Wellesley and Grosvenor. The glass atrium of the Burano and the small piazza could contain a great space for a restaurant or some other destination / gathering point.
At the very least the townhomes in the St. Michael's College project should be designed for live/work purposes... or have the corner units by the park and at the north-east corner of the site accomodate retail. A patio extending onto the north edge of the new park would be perfect.
ganjavih
Senior Member
I don't think anyone expects Bay St. to become another Yonge, but it can and should be improved to make it a more interesting place. It will always be a more tame place than Yonge St. but why can't it be lined with markets, cafes, bakeries and other things that would be appropriate for a primarily residential neighbourhood?
In terms of built form, I wish that Bay St. was more like Madison Ave., densely packed towers that meet the street. That would also make it a more interesting and walkable strip.
In terms of built form, I wish that Bay St. was more like Madison Ave., densely packed towers that meet the street. That would also make it a more interesting and walkable strip.
alklay
Senior Member
I am amazed at how many people on an 'urban' forum seem content that Bay St. remain an "express pedestrian route' or 'strictly utilitarian'. Too bad.
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
Presumably if there were a market for those sorts of services the stores would be there already. No one is going to open a bakery if no one is looking for pastry in that area.
Mmmm. Bakery.
But seriously folks, it's all about critical mass.
Those Opera Place slabs might not be able to support a bakery on their own, but once Murano and Burano and Lumiere residents have been added to the mix, maybe one of those buildings will sprout a bakery.
And when I say bakery, I mean any old type of retailer that needs more people around to survive than there currently are. Point being that the residents of 1 building might not be able to support 6 businesses at the base of their building, but the residents of 10 buildings may be able to support 60 businesses in their combined buildings. Bay Street is moving in that direction - in a few years it will work for more retailers in more niches than it does now.
42
But seriously folks, it's all about critical mass.
Those Opera Place slabs might not be able to support a bakery on their own, but once Murano and Burano and Lumiere residents have been added to the mix, maybe one of those buildings will sprout a bakery.
And when I say bakery, I mean any old type of retailer that needs more people around to survive than there currently are. Point being that the residents of 1 building might not be able to support 6 businesses at the base of their building, but the residents of 10 buildings may be able to support 60 businesses in their combined buildings. Bay Street is moving in that direction - in a few years it will work for more retailers in more niches than it does now.
42
Mike in TO
Senior Member
If I recall correctly Murano has 5 retails units in its base, all of which should have high ceilings and most importantly - NO PILLARS!
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Yes, when 6 more condos go up, a bakery and a restaurant will go in and there'll be more slightly more people walking around, but that's not the Queen West or Yonge Street that some in this thread are concerned isn't materializing.
I should note, though, that Bay Street is good enough for Bay Street, but it's not a model that should be followed elsewhere in the city. Unfortunately, it is being followed...
I should note, though, that Bay Street is good enough for Bay Street, but it's not a model that should be followed elsewhere in the city. Unfortunately, it is being followed...