Toronto U Condominiums | 183.79m | 56s | Pemberton | a—A

Re: Green Space

No one has posted the height in this thread yet,

The tallest tower is 135m/443 ft.
 
Re: Green Space

^ This part of Bay isn't really much of a retail area, even though there are some small stores at ground level of several condo towers (as there should be). If condo towers are facing Bay, or other arterial streets, absolutely they should have commercial space at ground level. But these blocks of Bay are basically residential in character, with institutional influences (university and church) on the west side. Townhouses here are a use that seems to make sense.
 
Re: Green Space

The block to the north has retail as does the one to the south (save for one parking lot).
 
Re: Green Space

Yes there is some retail but it's relatively small-scale along these three or four blocks, between Wellesley and Charles. The character of the street is much more residential, with relatively minor retail uses. With all respect ganjavih, I don't see this as being a "problem".

This may also be the one part of Bay that doesn't redily lend itself to the "canyon" effect which is present along other parts of the street. Small streets intersecting the west side of Bay along here (St. Joseph and St. Mary) lead one westward past the church property and relatively low-rise university buildings, with a good deal of green space interspersed. Townhouses facing the west side of Bay, with these land uses immediately behind them, may be less jarring than more highrises.
 
Re: Green Space

The plan is not *just* those townhouses though - it's also three highrise towers, the tallest two of which are integrated into, but slightly set back from, the townhouse streetwall. 45 floors overlooking Bay midblock is going to be jarring still - more from the west side though. This project has nothing at all to do with complementing the existing land use on the site nor improving the site nor doing what's best for Bay Street and the city, and all to do with getting the best bang for the buck.

I'm not saying that the eventual final site plan couldn't include towers or townhomes. It's just that at this point this plan only represents 'how much can we stuff in here?' without concerning itself with the ambient effect on the college's/church's campus and the U of T's eastern face. One would hope that those factors would be taken into account during the design of such a high-profile site, and one just expects more from such august institutions than this cynical joke.

It's really quite a contemptuous plan at this stage.

rattled 42
 
Re: Green Space

I don't see this as being a "problem".
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800000 square feet of residential without any secondary uses on a street where just about every developed property has retail/service as a secondary use is a pretty big problem but I'm a conformist
 
Re: Green Space

Yet one more addition to the effort to keep Bay the mess that it is.
 
Re: Green Space

I don't understand why everyone keeps referring to these townhouses. Isn't the base of the towers a 6-floor podium/building?
 
Re: Green Space

It's really quite a contemptuous plan at this stage.
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Agreed; let's hope that major modifications can be made. This is the one place along Bay where high-rise seems all wrong.
 
Re: Green Space

I don't understand why everyone keeps referring to these townhouses. Isn't the base of the towers a 6-floor podium/building?
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The report specifically mentions that the podium will be all residential, with front doors on Bay.

As a resident of St. Joseph street (#11) I'll also add in my two cents that this proposal is a disgrace. I just can't believe that St. Mike's is so desparate that it's willing to sell off all of the greenspace surrounding St. Basil's. That church is beautiful, and the park is the most obvious sign that you're entering the campus.

Nevermind just how dumb it is to suggest townhouses on Bay, a street which has ground level retail/office for the whole length of the street.
 
Re: Green Space

^Agree!

Too bad St. Basils and the greenspace on the lands could not be better integrated so as to create a much needed oasis on Bay.

The street itself needs to be recreated. It's hard to summon up the idea of Bay street being the locus of economic power when in reality it is so painfully bland.
 
Re: Green Space

I wonder if "all residential" is a misguided bow to the forces against commercialized redevelopment, i.e. if you take the so-called tacky stores away, it'll be more "acceptable" and "in keeping" with St. Mike's...
 
Re: Green Space

^ adma, no in my opinion that's not it at all. The problem here is the scale of the entire development, specifically the height, walling up the east end of the St. Basil's Church and university properties. We currently have a large, low-rise super-block extending all the way from Bay to Queen's Park, and from St. Joseph Street (incl. both sides of the street) up to Charles Street. It is characterized also by a lot of greenspace and quiet walkways.

I think a six-storey row of townhouses along the Bay frontage is OK. I would not have a problem either with some retail on the ground level of such a structure, facing Bay. Small stores are usually appropriate and generate some additional pedestrian activity along the street. (Not that the area needs a whole lot more retail space, there is already all kinds of it within easy walking distance.)

One tower might be OK as well, if it were positioned at the northeast corner, at St. Mary Street, serving as a transition to the high-rise district just north. But a low-rise character for most of this block is definitely most appropriate. Three big towers is at least two too many.
 
Formally, St. Mike's campus is a mess...the last thing it needs is townhouses and a trio of bland or potentially mildly offensive condos blocking St. Basil's and covering up every bit of land on that parcel. I don't see the city or even the OMB approving any plan that puts a condo on the "parkette" at St. Joseph & Bay. I hate the townhouses...a 6-ish storey podium running from the tip of the parkette up to St. Mary, with retail in the podium, a 20-30+ storey condo at St. Mary & Bay, and the grass north of Brennan retained, would be nice. Some sort of faux style could also work, like a higher quality version of Sorbara Hall...good masonry (no brick panelling), copper mansard roof, etc. But the land was bought for like $30M, so they're not going to settle for only about 400 units...I know I wouldn't. The blame has to fall squarely on St. Mike's here.
 
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