Vaughan TYSSE: Vaughan Metropolitan Centre Station | ?m | ?s | TTC | Grimshaw

[Electrify]

I used to do deliveries in that area. Like most "industrial areas" in our Made in China economy, a lot of the jobs there are self-employed contractors, architects, and other professionals. Making the change from what is currently there to what is proposed should not be as difficult as some may think.

 

[andrewpmk]

the problem is alot of 905 jobs are factory type jobs and never have very good asthetic looking buildings. Even if alot of the 905 jobs moved here I am doubtful it would look anything close to this. Plus one of the thngs 905 jobs really want is a ocean of parking available for their employees. IF they had to build underground parking lots to make up for all the old spots it would become a very expensive project for companys trying to save money NOT spend money.

I hope that this is a thing of the past. Until this subway extension opens, there was no rapid transit in the 905 (GO Transit being mostly rush hour only doesn't count). Since most areas of the 905 have poor transit, employers need to provide parking to 100% of their employees. The only affordable way to do so is with vast expanses of surface parking, forcing employers to locate in inaccessible locations where land is cheap. Even Mississauga Centre requires vast amounts of parking, since the bus service isn't all that convenient for many employees there, which explains why there had been little job growth in that part of Mississauga.

With the new subway station, a decent chunk of employees will have a viable transit option, so less parking is required. Employers can get away with charging for parking (maybe Vaughan will build some multi storey parking garages here). If say 50% of employees take transit then the cost of building parking goes down so dense development is more viable.

Now I am somewhat skeptical about how desirable Vaughan Centre will be as a place to live. The presence of the CN train yard will reduce property values here. I think that building a subway extension to Yonge and Highway 7 would have made more sense from the point of redevelopment because the area is more desirable, and three municipalities (Vaughan, Markham and Richmond Hill) would benefit.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I agree it's going to be a challenge and there will be areas of cookiecutterdom that won't change for a long, long time, if ever.

Last I checked, there's suburb-like swathes of Toronto too and much of south York Region is no worse than parts of Scarborough or North York.

BUT there will be huge changes along corridors like Yonge and Highway 7. It's probably a bit of planning and a bit of luck but at Warden, Yonge and Jane there are huge pieces of undeveloped land just waiting to be petri dishes for smart growth experimentation. It might not all work out as planned but there is genuinely a huge amount of potential.

Andrewpmk is right that the rail yard complicates things - they do have plans to get those trucks onto Highway 400 without rumbling through their slice of quasi-urban heaven and we'll have to see how that works out too. I still don't think there's anything to worry about with real estate values, though. You say "biggest rail yard in Canada" and I say "subway station and two BRT lines."

It should be interesting to watch, especially for the sort of people who visit this forum. Certainly I'd hope that grumpy 416ers see that if you want to get rid of ugly suburban habits and put an end to sprawl it's gotta start here, with the purported "Subway to Nowhere."

 

[BMO]

the subway/VIVA only really helps people going to work in York Region from Toronto or South York Region, and does nothing for the people North which is where you'll find the larger cookie-cutter neighbourhoods. But alas, at least it's something/ a start.

 

[Dan416]

I hope that this is a thing of the past. Until this subway extension opens, there was no rapid transit in the 905 (GO Transit being mostly rush hour only doesn't count). Since most areas of the 905 have poor transit, employers need to provide parking to 100% of their employees. The only affordable way to do so is with vast expanses of surface parking, forcing employers to locate in inaccessible locations where land is cheap. Even Mississauga Centre requires vast amounts of parking, since the bus service isn't all that convenient for many employees there, which explains why there had been little job growth in that part of Mississauga.

The lack of new office space in MCC has little to do with bus service in MCC (which is probably the best in the 905) and everything to do with the fact that land is expensive there and therefore lots of parking is unfeasible. By the same token, other parts of Mississauga with lots of job growth (ACC, Meadowvale) have poor bus service, but tons of parking.

Bringing the subway there will do little for people with jobs there, whether speaking about VCC or MCC. It'll benefit the people who live/work along the line, but in the 905, that won't be that many people, at least not for a decade or two and development and employment and where people live starts to reorient towards the subway line.

 

[CDL.TO]

The lack of new office space in MCC has little to do with bus service in MCC (which is probably the best in the 905) and everything to do with the fact that land is expensive there and therefore lots of parking is unfeasible. By the same token, other parts of Mississauga with lots of job growth (ACC, Meadowvale) have poor bus service, but tons of parking.

Bringing the subway there will do little for people with jobs there, whether speaking about VCC or MCC. It'll benefit the people who live/work along the line, but in the 905, that won't be that many people, at least not for a decade or two and development and employment and where people live starts to reorient towards the subway line.

Exactly. Businesses relocate to the 905 because land is cheap. Land is not cheap in MCC, and will not be cheap in VCC, so it's unlikely that businesses will want to locate there.

Right now, the business parks in the 905 are located with no regard to bus routes or GO stations. They locate close to highways, which might be a plus for VCC.

Overall, I'm highly skeptical that VCC will be able to implement its plans any better than Scarborough, Etobicoke, Mississauga, or North York.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I wasn't aware that North York Centre was considered a failure. Isn't it like a forest of mixed-use development built along a main street between subway stations? I think you could do a lot worse than having Jane/7 look like Yonge/Empress 15-20 years from now...

 

[sixrings]

the province could simply make it illegal for any job in the 416 or 905 to have FREE parking for their employees. If the minimum fee was 8$ a day to park then maybe some of the 905 businesses would then consider being around transit hubs like MCC or VCC more of a perk. They could take all that parking money and relocate it to each cities public transit infrastructure.

 

[CDL.TO]

I wasn't aware that North York Centre was considered a failure. Isn't it like a forest of mixed-use development built along a main street between subway stations?

Just because it has completely failed to meet its employment targets doesn't mean that it isn't a huge success in other ways. The Vaughan CORPORATE Centre plans are very focussed on commercial development, that's what I'm skeptical about.

I think you could do a lot worse than having Jane/7 look like Yonge/Empress 15-20 years from now...

I agree completely.

 

[CDL.TO]

the province could simply make it illegal for any job in the 416 or 905 to have FREE parking for their employees. If the minimum fee was 8$ a day to park then maybe some of the 905 businesses would then consider being around transit hubs like MCC or VCC more of a perk. They could take all that parking money and relocate it to each cities public transit infrastructure.

Might be a tough sell. Look at the anger over the 5 cent minimum fee for plastic bags.

 

[sixrings]

ok give a tax break to companies located at transit hubs and city centres,,, ECC, VCC, MCC, STC, NYCC

 

[Palma]

Might be a tough sell. Look at the anger over the 5 cent minimum fee for plastic bags.

The only businesses that offer free parking in the 416 must be north of the 401

 

[taal]

Exactly. Businesses relocate to the 905 because land is cheap. Land is not cheap in MCC, and will not be cheap in VCC, so it's unlikely that businesses will want to locate there.

Right now, the business parks in the 905 are located with no regard to bus routes or GO stations. They locate close to highways, which might be a plus for VCC.

Overall, I'm highly skeptical that VCC will be able to implement its plans any better than Scarborough, Etobicoke, Mississauga, or North York.

Not sure how true this really is ... I'm sure it's true at first ... but take the Hi-way / 404 / 407 node, rents in this area are quite high, I think the highest in all of the eastern GTA (higher then anything in eatern Toronto) ... eventually a cluster forms that's large enough in it's own right it attracts business just for that reason. There are many other software companies and large American non-software companies located in this node and others are attracted to it as well. Again, you can find way cheaper rent elsewhere in the GTA.

 

[andrewpmk]

Not sure how true this really is ... I'm sure it's true at first ... but take the Hi-way / 404 / 407 node, rents in this area are quite high, I think the highest in all of the eastern GTA (higher then anything in eatern Toronto) ... eventually a cluster forms that's large enough in it's own right it attracts business just for that reason. There are many other software companies and large American non-software companies located in this node and others are attracted to it as well. Again, you can find way cheaper rent elsewhere in the GTA.

But if employers expect all their employees to have cars, then they don't have to locate at Highway 407 & 404, they can locate at 16th Avenue & 404, or Major Mackenzie & 404, or Steeles & 404, or Yonge & 407, or Gordon Baker Road, Consumers Road, etc. Employers don't really gain much advantage from being right in one area if they can move 2km down the road where rent is cheaper. Highway 407 & 404 is an ugly, undesirable-looking area anyway, I can't imagine why anywhere would locate there for any reason other than low cost.

In Vaughan Centre, on the other hand, employers have to be near the subway station for the subway to be useful. They can't go 2km down the road or else employees will have to take a bus (or drive).

 

[Ramako]

So they ended up going with "Vaughan Metropolitan Centre Station" after all? How embarrassing it will be when people emerge from that station to find that they are not, in fact, in the centre of a metropolis.