Toronto Toronto Coach Terminal Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | CreateTO

khris said:
Someone should really think about shrinking that cone to the east and also get rid of the north approach.
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Why?
Northern Light said:
Why would they do this, when:

a) They just enlarged it, literally, and did so, it would seem, because of a clear safety issue.

b) Why would we limit safe transport of medically emergent patients to world leading hospitals, so a dozen building sites can be taller? Does this really seem like a good trade? Not to me.
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Agreed. Safe flight paths for medical transport is not something I'm not losing sleep over.
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
That's bleeding heart thinking there, Northern Light-san. We're giving those patients a free pass while staggering development...we can't have that! It'll make things worse for progress in this city... /s
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We could charge a land-improvement tax to everyone in the corridor and use those funds to build a 250m tall hospital helicopter platform giving nearly everyone within the corridor the ability to build a supertall. I very much doubt if land owners would take that offer. Most will find their 150m+ limit perfectly usable.
 
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Northern Light said:
@TwinHuey is best placed to identify what elevation limit would apply in this section.

In terms of the site overall, obviously @Tuscani01 has identified that this is an impact, but my cautious read is that there is enough footprint left, even while not touching the Bay-side heritage to do something workable here. It just wouldn't be the same as it was previously conceived of, which likely means a delay.......

It would also be a highly irregular shape. Which UT'ers would love.....but has impacts on build costs.
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My background in EMS helicopter operations included providing initial site inspections for hospital heliports. However, that typically involved standing on the roof of an existing building (Sunnybrook and St Mikes) and eyeballing the available approach/departure routes.

To help me visualize a heliport located on top of the HSC tower, I reached out to @steveve who has taken the time to produce one of his amazing infographics.

Looking North, the HSC tower is in yellow.
HSC Tower.jpg


This needs to be studied by a comprehensive obstacle limitation survey, but I really can't see any reason why the heliport can not be relocated to the new tower.

Keep in mind that a heliport on the new tower would require altering the headings of the existing approach/departure corridor cones to a more northerly start point.

However, being positioned on the western edge of the new tower could open up additional approach/departure options (to the north over Queens Park, to the southwest, to the southeast).

I'll toss it back to other UT members about whether or not increasing the height of the zoning limitations is a good thing but keep in mind that altering the angle of the existing cones may overlay properties not currently impacted. Plus the new location could open up the potential of additional approach/departure corridors with the associated zoning restrictions.

I should clarify that the expansion of the approach/departure corridors for HSC and St Mikes is not to mitigate a risk to flight safety. There is nothing unsafe about current operations.

As I've indicated in other threads, limited approach/departure to H1 hospital heliports is a risk to patient outcomes.

There may be times that a narrow approach/departure corridor prevents an EMS helicopter from landing due to wind direction.

Landing at an alternate location and completing the transfer by land ambulance takes time that some patients can not afford.


Thank you @steveve !
 
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Honestly curious if landing the helicopter in high winds would be harder if it was on top of the HSC. If so, that seems like a good enough reason not to move it.

I also wouldn't be surprised if moving it ended up being more disruptive to more proposals than the current changes are. Right now it's going to impact a handful of buildings on the periphery of the old flight path. If those paths fundamentally change due to a new location, it could end up accidentally having even more of an impact despite the increased height of the helipad.
 
TossYourJacket said:
Honestly curious if landing the helicopter in high winds would be harder if it was on top of the HSC. If so, that seems like a good enough reason not to move it.

I also wouldn't be surprised if moving it ended up being more disruptive to more proposals than the current changes are. Right now it's going to impact a handful of buildings on the periphery of the old flight path. If those paths fundamentally change due to a new location, it could end up accidentally having even more of an impact despite the increased height of the helipad.
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Good question about the high winds. Glad to see you're curious.

Wind is beneficial. Helicopter performance improves when taking off directly into the wind vs zero wind.

Reminded me of a graphic from an old flight training manual. Happy face with moderate to strong winds (ignore the gauges, they're for piston engines). 😆

Screenshot 2024-02-08 at 1.48.00 PM.jpg

"I also wouldn't be surprised if moving it ended up being more disruptive to more proposals than the current changes are." Good point.

The only way to tell is to have another obstacle limitation survey produced for a heliport located on the tower.

It may be worth the time and effort.
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
That's bleeding heart thinking there, Northern Light-san. We're giving those patients a free pass while staggering development...we can't have that! It'll make things worse for progress in this city... /s
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You're just always looking for a fight, aren't you? Stop trying to provoke me for sharing my opinion. You don't like my opinion, that's fine, but do not provoke me or anyone else. It's unnecessary and hostile.
 
khris said:
You're just always looking for a fight, aren't you? Stop trying to provoke me for sharing my opinion. You don't like my opinion, that's fine, but do not provoke me or anyone else. It's unnecessary and hostile.
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To be clear, I call out bad acting, because it is my hope they can give pause and move on from their ignorance and hate. And in doing so, I hope to make the world a slightly better place for everyone.

That said, if it's a shite posting that's all you can bring to the table here, then I'm not interested in continuing with it. As you refuse consider not all opinions are right or informed. So for now, I'll just put you on /ignore...as I do not want this to distract further from the importance of this debate or development.

In the meantime, if you have any issues with my opinion or approaches, I encourage you to take it up with admin. Thank you for your time. /bows
 
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