Toronto Toronto City Hall and Nathan Phillips Square | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | Perkins&Will

Re: re: NPS Competition

Agreed. I don't get the argument in the piece. How do they know he will not be put in a better spot?
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

To whomever knows about this:

Isn't it the case that the Churchill statue was not even an "official" project of any government? From what I understand, it was donated to the city by a group of citizens who wanted Churchill to be honoured somehow, and the city ended up putting it on that grass patch.
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

I don't agree with moving monuments unless it's absolutely necessary. I'd rather it stay where it is.
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

"Using the logic (?) above, the square would be named "In front of City Hall Square" or "Public Events Square."

You're off the naming panel!

"Nathan Phillips helped transform this city -- naming the square after him was a fitting tribute and I can't imagine a more appropriate name."

A plaque would suffice for this trivial footnote.
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

I couldn't make it past the first few paragraphs in the article. And what was with the cheap stab at lefties?

At first I wasn't even sure which statue they were talking about. It's in such a location that I rarely notice it when passing by. If they're really concerned about honoring him, why not move it to a more noticeable location?
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

A plaque would suffice for this trivial footnote.
Click to expand...

Trivial footnote? Booo! You're off the naming panel! In fact, there should be no naming panel!

Winston Churchill was no saint - ie his attitudes towards Indians for example. The statue is fine, but if it can be moved to a more prominent location or a more fitting location to allow for the revitalization of Nathan Phillips Square, that should be fine.

Where were the pre-Phillips Orangemen when the TTC moved Alexander Muir Garden (noted for his British-centric patriotic song) for the North Yonge subway extension to a more fitting park setting?
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

The Churchill statue is another bit of rogue gifting by the late Harry Jackman - who gave us Gumby Goes To Heaven, on University Avenue at Dundas, by the same sculptor. It is a duplicate of the one in the Palace of Westminster.
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

Muir was an Orangeman. I was just suggesting that there really shouldn't be a big deal in moving a monument to a person, if the old-guard didn't make a big deal back then. (And no claims of being PC) The Sun and Hal Jackman are making something out of nothing, especially with the obligatory lefty bashing.

Here's some proposed names then, if we should recognize all, not one person:

Multiculturalism Square
Torontonians Square
World Classiness Square
Toronto Square
The people who lived in the 1960s Square

I think your ideas would be more suited to Montreal. They've got:

Phillips Square (!)
Victoria Square
Dorchester Square
Jacques-Cartier Place

Oh! Three of those names are Anglo! One of them is even a Royal Brit! Given how Montreal loves to rename places and streets, they should take your ideas to heart.

They've got a Place du Canada. Maybe they need to rename that to Place du Quebec.
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

"Winston Churchill was no saint - ie his attitudes towards Indians for example."

What's your point? I'm pretty sure Nathan Phillips wasn't a "saint" either.

Winston Churchill played a pivotal role in saving the western world from the spread of faschism, and in stopping the Nazis and the persecution of the jewish people. Nathan Phillips was a Mayor (and jewish, ironically). Hmmmmm, tough comparison...

I'm not saying I feel Winston's statue should remain in a newly-named civic square. I guess that's just my point, the square should honour the people of the city, not any one individual, no matter how significant their real or perceived contribution.

"Where were the pre-Phillips Orangemen when the TTC moved Alexander Muir Garden (noted for his British-centric patriotic song) for the North Yonge subway extension to a more fitting park setting?"

"Pre-Phillips Orangemen"? This revisionist aggrandizement of the man amuses me! So reductionist too (British Canadian = orange). I mean, unless there was some secret majority of non-British and/or non-protestants living in Toronto at the time, I dare say it were those same nasty 'Orangemen' who helped to vote in Phillips to begin with...and in 1867 all songs in Upper Canada were likely British-centric!
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

"Winston Churchill played a pivotal role in saving the western world from the spread of faschism, and in stopping the Nazis and the persecution of the jewish people. Nathan Phillips was a Mayor (and jewish, ironically). Hmmmmm, tough comparison..."

Very true.

Churchill had some good quotes:

"The Americans will always do the right thing...after they've exhausted all the alternatives."

Lady Astor, "If I were your wife, I'd put poison in your coffee." Churchill, "Nancy, if I were your husband, I would drink it."

Lady Astor, "You are drunk." Churchill, "I may be drunk, miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly."
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

"Nathan Phillips helped transform this city -- naming the square after him was a fitting tribute and I can't imagine a more appropriate name."

A plaque would suffice for this trivial footnote.
Click to expand...

Your credibility is going down the drain.
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

Winston Churchill was no saint - ie his attitudes towards Indians for example. The statue is fine, but if it can be moved to a more prominent location or a more fitting location to allow for the revitalization of Nathan Phillips Square, that should be fine.
Click to expand...

Very true. Churchill's racist attitude towards Indians was shameful.
 
Re: re: NPS Competition

Churchill's leadership turned the tide of the war on the Nazis during Battle of Britain and secured allied response to Herr Hitler. He spoke his mind and said what was needed to be said- that was his personality. In my view, which is shared my millions, Churchill was the most brilliant politicain of the last century -period. Tell me somebody who was a better 'World' leader at this time?

I'm a huge admirer of Churchill as a man of conviction. If perhaps we can move his image to a more prominent location in the city I wouldn't be totally adverse to that. Of course he deserves a far better memorial in Canada than what we have provided so far.
 
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