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WiddleBittyKitty said:
I think Lyphe's point about pulling up tent pegs is not to get outta sight, don't come back here no more, so much as it's more of an invite to get to know other places better so you see that every city stumbles forward - they've all got problems, and we're not all that badly off.
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Not bad off? Come on, by almost any metrics you can think of we are an immensely prosperous and desirable city and region. We should be doing better than most other places, far better.

What's depressing is that we often act like one of those other cities you'd like to send us to, i.e. a broke city limping along, or one in political gridlock, or one squandering money and making bad decisions due to corruption etc. Calling this out is not being dire, it's being optimistic that things can change and improve!
 
TonyV said:
If I think about it enough, MetroMan, then I will get depressed, as per your comment. It is really hard to fathom that this city - a city which is taking in so much revenue from new development - has to justify these beautification efforts. Such a paltry sum is provided for keeping things tidy at the very least, if not exactly spiffy. The attitude is just disgusting. More in the context of this project, it is even harder to understand how project management can slip so low on the ladder. This "revitalization" effort has been going on for so many years. I feel pretty certain that the original budget has been wasted to a large degree.

Oh, I know this is OT, but I don't expect "Mr. Toronto" aka John Tory to improve things in this respect. Tory has no use for beautification initiative, obviously.
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It really is fitting that Denzil Minnan-Wong is the deputy mayor. He epitomizes the negligible attitude that our public realm faces, more than any other politician in the city. It makes sense to have someone that holds such views to be in such a position of power and influence. We have to maintain this indifference every election cycle. Just imagine him as the actual mayor. Our sidewalks would be made of the gravel you see at every TDSB baseball field.
 
It looks as if they are prepping to lay the pavers this morning, and that speakers corner will be reappearing at the north end of the garden.
 
WiddleBittyKitty said:
Does Toronto really blunder along a la Spinal Tap? Sure it makes some missteps, but every city does. No, Toronto would not consistently rank in the top ten cities in the world to live in, survey after survey, and coming in at number 1 often enough.
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Toronto's high ranking among livable cities is more a result of the fact it is located in Canada (education and healthcare, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary are high too) than something the city did right, especially in terms the public realm or transportation.

And those rankings don't consider wage and cost of living whatsoever, so don't take it too seriously. It is more from the perspective of an expat than a resident or potential immigrant.
 
ksun said:
Toronto's high ranking among livable cities is more a result of the fact it is located in Canada (education and healthcare, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary are high too) than something the city did right, especially in terms the public realm or transportation.

And those rankings don't consider wage and cost of living whatsoever, so don't take it too seriously. It is more from the perspective of an expat than a resident or potential immigrant.
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Come on, it's more than just that. Crime stats? Economics? Job availability? Housing? Lifestyle? Toronto rocks in many ways, relatively speaking (city of its size and population etc). These polls are not factoring in starchitecture or tourist sites I'm sure, which admittedly is not Toronto's strong point... and they're all written by homesick expats? really??
 
Tewder said:
Come on, it's more than just that. Crime stats? Economics? Job availability? Housing? Lifestyle? Toronto rocks in many ways, relatively speaking (city of its size and population etc). These polls are not factoring in starchitecture or tourist sites I'm sure, which admittedly is not Toronto's strong point... and they're all written by homesick expats? really??
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I am not denying the things you say, but those livability rankings don't consider jobs, economics, housing market etc. at all. Economics and jobs are not that fantastic in Montreal or Vancouver, but they made to the top of the list as well. For example, San Francisco and Boston have solid economy, high wages and low crime too, how come they are nowhere near the top? Because they are not in Canada, not because they are not Toronto. In real life, who honestly would choose Montreal over San Francisco, or Calgary over Boston? Come on.

I am only saying those rankings in reality have little to do with whether the city does something right.
 
Agreed. Every Canadian I know wants to be an American and live and work in America. It's the true land of freedom and capitalism and awesome-sauce public realms. Not once have we ever felt afraid or uncomfortable in their Disney-world type cities where everyone is equal and rich and living' the dream as outlined in their constitution as a right. Do they even need police or prisons? There is no comparing Montreal with Boston that's for sure!

Thanks, ksun. You always put on smile on our faces everyday you tell us the truth! Hope that people dig deep and realize how crappy our country really is and not just look at the movie version of Canada and what's portrayed in the media! It's awful. Zero to be proud of.
 
The eternal flame was lit (temporarily, not eternally) earlier this afternoon and they are busy waterproofing the reflecting pool by the Pope House.
 
NBGtect said:
Agreed. Every Canadian I know wants to be an American and live and work in America. It's the true land of freedom and capitalism and awesome-sauce public realms. Not once have we ever felt afraid or uncomfortable in their Disney-world type cities where everyone is equal and rich and living' the dream as outlined in their constitution as a right. Do they even need police or prisons? There is no comparing Montreal with Boston that's for sure!

Thanks, ksun. You always put on smile on our faces everyday you tell us the truth! Hope that people dig deep and realize how crappy our country really is and not just look at the movie version of Canada and what's portrayed in the media! It's awful. Zero to be proud of.
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Both Canada and US are large countries with many different places. Comparing the cities is way more meaningful than vaguely talking about Canada vs. US in general, and I didn't even imply one is better than the other. Not sure why your ego is so badly hurt so easily. Given a chance, most people in the world would choose to live in SF over Montreal, Boston over Calgary, no? Does that automatically mean the US is better than Canada?

Another topic for another day of course. You do hope your will recover well. Now I am going to take some pictures of the NPS and upload here later.
 
Lyphe said:
People that say things like this really need to travel. Are there cities that do better? Yep. But Toronto is a rockstar by many standards and it always irks me when I read overly dramatic comments like this. Oh, forgot one more thing. There is nothing keeping you from picking up your tent pegs and moving on if Toronto is so depressing. Cheers!
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I travel and I do so extensively. A few weeks ago I was in New York, Philadelphia, New York again, Brussels, Amsterdam, Pisa, Rome, Florence and Lisbon. Next week, I'll be in St. John's, Newfoundland. Earlier this year, I was in Barcelona. By the end of the year, I'll have returned to several other major cities like San Francisco, LA and Chicago.

Let's just say: I travel. I stand by my point: Toronto is depressing.

Every city has their own problems but I've not seen any major cities ignoring their public spaces — especially along their tourist routes — with such lack of pride.
 
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MetroMan said:
I travel and I do so extensively. A few weeks ago I was in New York, Philadelphia, New York again, Brussels, Amsterdam, Pisa, Rome, Florence and Lisbon. Next week, I'll be in St. John's, Newfoundland. Earlier this year, I was in Barcelona. By the end of the year, I'll have returned to several other major cities like San Francisco, LA and Chicago.

Let's just say: I travel. I stand by my point: Toronto is depressing.

Every city has their own problems but I've not seen any major cities ignoring their public spaces — especially along their tourist routes — with such lack of pride.
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So Toronto is depressing, but I've highlighted some cities above. I don't think there is another northeastern/midwestern city with the exception of one city, that is more exciting (less depressing?) than Toronto. The other cities have the benefit of amazing year round weather to work with, or 1000's of years of history, culture and architecture. They will obviously have an edge on Toronto based on those facts alone, the weather here basically kills the vibe of the place, 6 months a year.
 
ksun said:
Both Canada and US are large countries with many different places. Comparing the cities is way more meaningful than vaguely talking about Canada vs. US in general, and I didn't even imply one is better than the other. Not sure why your ego is so badly hurt so easily. Given a chance, most people in the world would choose to live in SF over Montreal, Boston over Calgary, no? Does that automatically mean the US is better than Canada?

Another topic for another day of course. You do hope your will recover well. Now I am going to take some pictures of the NPS and upload here later.
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I'm actually not sure we will recover. We used to love UT but it's people like you who ruin every single thread they can pipe in on with their agenda. But we do look forward to your pictures (sans any of your thoughts or opinions).
 
caltrane74 said:
So Toronto is depressing, but I've highlighted some cities above. I don't think there is another northeastern/midwestern city with the exception of one city, that is more exciting (less depressing?) than Toronto. The other cities have the benefit of amazing year round weather to work with, or 1000's of years of history, culture and architecture. They will obviously have an edge on Toronto based on those facts alone, the weather here basically kills the vibe of the place, 6 months a year.
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I don't know, i've always felt that Toronto has so many innate graces. Don't like winter? It'll be spring soon enough, or summer, or autumn which is magic time in this city with the fall colours...

Personally my criticisms of the public realm, harsh at times, never stems from a belief that Toronto is inferior. On the contrary, it comes from a belief that the city has so much raw potential to realize. When I see streetscapes improved, like Market Street or Front by Union Station for example, I see an extraordinary city emerging from mediocrity... and would just like to see more of it. This is not depressing at all.
 
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