One Nut Kruk
Banned
I guess. It's just hard to get excited by an improvement to a hackneyed design.
Toronto The United BLDG | 179.52m | 52s | Davpart | B+H
- Thread starter Automation Gallery
- Start date
I guess. It's just hard to get excited by an improvement to a hackneyed design.
isaidso
Senior Member
Before it was busy, but at least a departure from the cookie cutter towers we get inflicted with. Now it's just a complete bore all the way around. Why bother when it's always just going to be a banal glass tower when the usual suspects get their hands on it?
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I found the comments re: subway entrance particularly damning:
TTC Entrance
While appreciative that the TTC subway access stair on University will be removed, Panel found the integration of the St Patrick TTC entrance into the proposed building to be unsatisfactory. Some comments provided in this regard are as follows:
Where is the celebration of arrival?
Look what other cities are doing with transit integration; the world has passed us [Toronto] by
A tiny little access at such a prominent location is embarrassing
Don’t settle for the lowest standards; you are not even providing escalators
There is a definite need to increase design excellence here:
- Pursue more "celebration"
- Want to see natural light penetrate below grade
http://www.toronto.ca/planning/2013/agendas/pdf/drp_minutes_18sept13.pdf (p. 6)
Wish there is more info (renderings, plans, etc) - but it sounds truly awful.
AoD
TTC Entrance
While appreciative that the TTC subway access stair on University will be removed, Panel found the integration of the St Patrick TTC entrance into the proposed building to be unsatisfactory. Some comments provided in this regard are as follows:
Where is the celebration of arrival?
Look what other cities are doing with transit integration; the world has passed us [Toronto] by
A tiny little access at such a prominent location is embarrassing
Don’t settle for the lowest standards; you are not even providing escalators
There is a definite need to increase design excellence here:
- Pursue more "celebration"
- Want to see natural light penetrate below grade
http://www.toronto.ca/planning/2013/agendas/pdf/drp_minutes_18sept13.pdf (p. 6)
Wish there is more info (renderings, plans, etc) - but it sounds truly awful.
AoD
urbandreamer
recession proof
What do you want? I know what should happen ... pay me $1 and I may do it. 
junctionist
Senior Member
It sounds like a good critique, but in fairness, the TTC itself set the lowest standards for design in the past decades, including the "hole in the ground" exposed staircases to University line stations. It's good that the DRP reviews public projects as well, like the West Toronto Railpath extension in that PDF. Our future stations should be outstanding.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
those sidewalk entrances to the subway are standard worldwide.. If anything I want more of them. Just not on such skinny sidewalks like they are now.
junctionist
Senior Member
I want to see wider, covered entrances. The "holes in the ground" are nasty when it snows and the steps are covered in a slippery slush.
DtTO
Active Member
While I agree with some of the critique, most is just harsh and ignorant to reality. Which parts of the world have passed us? Have these "critics" actually seen what other cities are doing? Sydney doesn't even have a true subway line, a lot of NYC subway entrances look exactly like the ones we have on University, Chicago's entrances are horrible, and the list goes on. Europe is about the only place with better subway entrances than Toronto (Dubai, China, etc. excluded). I appreciate that Torontonians want higher standards for our public transportation infrastructure, but the "everyone is better than us" argument just makes one sound ignorant.
SP!RE
°°°°°°
Yeah, God forbid we hurt the developer's feelings!
The points that are raised are right on point. Why would we accept a banal hole-in-the-wall for a subway entrance from a development of this scale and cost? The developer and architect can give us better than that.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Gee, how critical can you be about everything
SP!RE
°°°°°°
If you studied with me, you'd see that I am one of the most supportive peers someone can have, and I bring a much more laidback and positive approach than many of my peers or instructors do in the industry. On a personal level, I believe in positive reinforcement.
But with regards to developers who get away with building crap and foisting it on the public while they make massive profits, I'm not sure "critical" is a bad way to be.
But with regards to developers who get away with building crap and foisting it on the public while they make massive profits, I'm not sure "critical" is a bad way to be.
salsa
Senior Member
I'm not sure about that. To me these entrances look way better than the faceless concrete versions on University
One Nut Kruk
Banned
Gee, how critical can you be about everything
Are you critical of anything, except short buildings? All you seem to care about is height; not details.
junctionist
Senior Member
The NYC subway is one of the few systems in the world that's worse than the TTC from a design standpoint. However, as we're still in the process of building out our network, we can get things right.
p5connex
Active Member
Worse design? Seriously? Respectfully, I think I have to disagree. I love the NYC subway and would be happy to have even a third of their system, in the same or even worse condition that is in today. While we are laughably busy building 6 Taj Mahal stations, they have a massive system, that while dirty and maybe somewhat challenged in some places, is exceptional and is still growing continually, year by year. Furthermore, the 6 stations we have finally started to build, took a decade to finally get in the ground. Sad that the even the idea of transit is such a political hotcake here, that we discuss and debate minor items to death. No wonder people have lost interest in what happens here - as the outcome is painfully and constantly the same - nothing. To bring the point back to design. I can appreciate the aspect of design being important, and I am one of the first to agree, that the design of our system is important, but it is not a priority when the priority is to get the system to connect to more people. It is my humble opinion, that we work on building our system out, have a basic design, that satisfies on the simplest level and build, build, build till we get a well connected system. Span the city, and reach as many areas as we can. Once we have really begun connecting the city together, should we start to worry about designing Taj Mahal stations. It is key that we focus on making transit available and accessible to everyone, and let's put these trumped up designs on hold till we can actually boast a system worthy of such stations.