Toronto TeaHouse 501 Yonge Condominiums | 170.98m | 52s | Lanterra | a—A

My point exactly - Nobody seems to know how to meet the street anymore...(even above average firms like aA)..
 
Why the hate-on for Murano? Other than the tacky glass art at street level and the glass-falling-from-above issue, these two towers are my favourite aA designs to date. Absolutely gorgeous.

Compare to how RoCraP meets the street, with shamefully cheap details straight out of Home Depot parts catalogue...
 
We were talking about the potential loss of street retail at 501 Yonge.....unfortunately, although the towers at Murano are handsome, the podium is dead, as in dead.....we weren't comparing to RoCP...that's a whole other can of worms...
 
ProjectEnd said:
Also, to all who complain about how terrible aA and Murano are, which condo would you suggest features a better grade/street treatment?
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Just about any other condo. I love the Murano towers but that podium couldn't be more dead and sterile and monotonous for that entire block.
 
ProjectEnd said:
Where has it been done better?
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This is a really good question. As far as new buildings go, the first off hand I think think of is Clear Spirit in the Distillery. There are a variety of shops of a variety of sizes at grade.

Despite what is happening in other parts of the building, 10 Dundas East at Y-D Square does it well at street level: small stores along Yonge and Dundas with a big box on the 2nd floor (with a ground floor entrance).

18 Yorkville has a good rhythm at its base, although it's too bad the Le Pain Quotidien space hasn't been replaced.
 
Good street presence & retail, off the top of my head: The Ellington (Yonge & Carlton), Century Plaza (24 Wellesley W.), 555 Yonge & 8 Wellesley E. (N/E & S/E corners of Yonge & Wellesley - both office conversions), Market Square (Front/Church), 10 Bellair, 110 Bloor W., Lexington Condos (Carlton/Church), Alexus (Alexander/Church), Paxton Place (Charles/Church) + 55 & 85 Bloor E. are OK. Most of the above were built in the 80's & 90's.
 
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The problem with one architect or one firm designing a long strip of retail along a street front is they are selfishly guarding their "design concept" and don't want everyday matters like, vendor's preferences or pedestrian's psychology to muddle up their perfect image of what they were going for.

Long strips of storefronts along a street should never look uniform though that is what almost all architects come up with. Their limited minds can only imagine the "whole" and it grates on their soul to have non-homogeneous storefronts repeating one after the other. I think many architects are actually obsessive compulsive types who align all their pencils on their desk perpendicular to the edge and anything out of place would cause them to go into apoplexy.

The truth is, when stores have all the same glass, signage, size, colour or what have you, psychologically the passer-by feels two things... First: "Seen one, you've seen them all." and interest is lost before they have walked halfway down the block... And second: More subliminally, the uniformity causes us to feel that all the retail is likely owned by the same people and no deals or anything interesting is to be had.

And we all walk on by, without stopping and soon the street is bleak and only the Dry-cleaners stays in business.

in reality, what gives a street "life" is randomness. Funky shaped store fronts. Different height signage. Random awnings. Storefronts that break the property line (some recessed slightly and some with cafe-style patio seating.) Roll-up garage door windows. Display areas with curved glass with mannequins in clothing.

Do architects NEVER go window shopping with their loved ones on a sunny afternoon? Are they trapped in their studios with fluorescent lighting and no windows all day? Do they even live in the real world?

Judging by their idea of Condo street presence, I think not.
 
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To add to dt's list ... some other recent good examples:

18 Yorkville (Great Gulf) - retail frontage on Yonge Street
Element (Tridel) and Matrix + Apex @ Citypalce (Concord) - retail frontage on Front Street
London on the Esplanade (Cityzen) - retail frontage on The Esplanade
Opera Place + Allegro + Bay Club - retail frontage on Bay Street

Even RoCP 1+2 has some successful animalted retail frontage on Bay Street with Starbucks and PizzaPizza (as much as some people dispise this project)
 
The most successful condo podium retail and street animation in this city IMO are located in Yorkville. 18 Yorkville, Minto Yorkville, 80-100 Yorkville, The Maxus (80 Cumberland), and The Hazelton (etc.) are all decent to great in terms of creating/continuing the great streetscape scene of Yorkville.
 
Most of Yorkville's, King West, the Distillery District and King East's new condos have good retail.

And people may bemoan a singular montonous design aesthetic as a killer of retail, but that's exactly how Paris is designed.

Crumminess due to storefront retail is due to poor column placement in the retail, retail being placed in areas where there is little demand for it (in non-high street locations), and the generally high rents in newer buildings. Dry cleaners and nail salons are omnipresent because they have absolutely no overhead, and do not require trendy locations to exist. And bad column placement is not a death knell of condo retail - many retail in other areas of town squeeze into even more absurd spaces.

Build a condo in a trendy area, and it will probably be able to lease its retail. Build it in a no man's land, and it won't.
 
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