Toronto St Regis Toronto Hotel and Residences | 281.93m | 58s | JFC Capital | Zeidler

The Marriott family didn't run for president. It's also a public company with the family holding only 20% of the shares.
 
gabe said:
St Regis will be a welcome addition to Toronto. But i will say some of the best hotels i ever stayed at were Trump Hotels. Service and room quality was right up there with Ritz Carlton and Four Seasons. I don't like Trump or agree with his bigoted views but i wouldn't hesitate staying at a Trump Hotel. Same with Marriott Hotels. That chain is owned by a Mormon family who funded anti-gay marriage bills and are big Republican supporters. Again i don't agree with their religious or political views but it doesn't stop me from staying at their hotels.
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There's also no surprise that the Marriott family are Trump supporters.
 
You guys are missing the point: it wasn't the hotel that took Talon (and Trump) down here, it was the 100 or so unsold condo suites, worth a couple hundred million dollars.

42
 
interchange42 said:
You guys are missing the point: it wasn't the hotel that took Talon (and Trump) down here, it was the 100 or so unsold condo suites, worth a couple hundred million dollars.

42
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For the bankruptcy, yes. But the hotel was underperforming. For a hotel of that caliber, at that location, to have vacancies and a lack of events during TIFF, as one example, means that there were profound issues with the brand in this city. Something was likely going to give on that front eventually, insolvency or not.
 
Skeezix said:
For the bankruptcy, yes. But the hotel was underperforming. For a hotel of that caliber, at that location, to have vacancies and a lack of events during TIFF, as one example, means that there were profound issues with the brand in this city. Something was likely going to give on that front eventually, insolvency or not.
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My understanding is that the hotel has indeed been underperforming, but the risk of the hotel has largely been handed off to the condo hotel buyers, which I believe they managed to sell most of. Most of the losses on the hotel front are likely being eaten by individual buyers rather than Talon.
 
Skeezix said:
For a hotel of that caliber, at that location, to have vacancies and a lack of events during TIFF, as one example, means that there were profound issues with the brand in this city.
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Again, I don't think the brand was the main reason behind this. IMO, It's a more complex issue related to location (believe it or not, it is fantastic location for some, but inconvenient for others, especially considering how close the Ritz/Shangri-la are to TIFF central, and the Four Seasons is in trendy Yorkville), the size of the hotel and amenities offered (Trump has the smallest lobby and smallest venue areas of the bunch, naturally because of its crammed location and inability to have any sort of podium - everything is stacked vertically), not to mention it's a very competitive and relatively newfound market in TO for these brands, all 4 of these 5 star brands entered the market around the same time period.

Given this space, I also think Trump is the least established brand out of the bigger players: Ritz Carlton and Four Seasons, perhaps Shangri-la as well because they have no presence in the US market, but they are huge in Asia (as I mentioned earlier, they also have the location and amenities working in its favour). Furthermore, I don't believe Trump Hotels are tied to any hotel alliances, which is actually a big deal for frequent travellers who accumulate loyalty points (Ritz and Shang are very prominent for this)...

Anyway, it's a complex issue and there are many factors related to why the hotel wasn't successful in the city... hard to pinpoint the blame solely on the Trump brand.
 
steveve said:
Again, I don't think the brand was the main reason behind this. IMO, It's a more complex issue related to location (believe it or not, it is fantastic location for some, but inconvenient for others, especially considering how close the Ritz/Shangri-la are to TIFF central, and the Four Seasons is in trendy Yorkville), the size of the hotel and amenities offered (Trump has the smallest lobby and smallest venue areas of the bunch, naturally because of its crammed location and inability to have any sort of podium - everything is stacked vertically), not to mention it's a very competitive and relatively newfound market in TO for these brands, all 4 of these 5 star brands entered the market around the same time period.

Given this space, I also think Trump is the least established brand out of the bigger players: Ritz Carlton and Four Seasons, perhaps Shangri-la as well because they have no presence in the US market, but they are huge in Asia (as I mentioned earlier, they also have the location and amenities working in its favour). Furthermore, I don't believe Trump Hotels are tied to any hotel alliances, which is actually a big deal for frequent travellers who accumulate loyalty points (Ritz and Shang are very prominent for this)...

Anyway, it's a complex issue and there are many factors related to why the hotel wasn't successful in the city... hard to pinpoint the blame solely on the Trump brand.
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Not complex at all. The man is the brand. There is one reason people were avoiding it during TIFF - it had very little to do with loyalty points.
 
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steveve said:
Anyway, it's a complex issue and there are many factors related to why the hotel wasn't successful in the city... hard to pinpoint the blame solely on the Trump brand.
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The points regarding the weakness of this particular location is one thing - but there has also been a general feeling that the brand is a liability over the past year - and that's an across the board issue not specific to Toronto.

AoD
 
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It's a poor location for residential condos. I believe they'll still be a tough sell forcing a new direction. It's a not bad location for a hotel. The hotel, of course, has its own issues with being a condo as well. Perhaps the ownership structure will change however, this is probably short term flip for JFC. I do think they want to be stuck with the hotel.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
The points regarding the weakness of this particular location is one thing - but there has also been a general feeling that the brand is a liability over the past year - and that's an across the board issue not specific to Toronto.

AoD
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Agreed, but the impact of that across-the-board issue is likely being felt differently depending on the property.
 
Skeezix said:
Not complex at all. The man is the brand. There is one reason people were avoiding it during TIFF - it had very little to do with loyalty points.
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I don't doubt the impact Trump (Donald) has had on peoples perception of the hotel and why some have chosen to avoid it, I'm suggesting that the factors that have impacted the property outside of the Trump brand (location, venues, etc...), will still face the new operators of the St. Regis, and are tied to the building itself. Rebranding will help the hotels reputation, occupancy (member of the Starwood/Marriott/Ritz family), but by what measure remains to be seen. I don't think it will ever be as popular a spot as the Ritz, Shangri-la, and Four Seasons during TIFF or outside TIFF. The financial district is still a 'dead-zone' at night if stacked up to neighbourhoods like the Entertainment District in which TIFF thrives upon.
 
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