Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[rbt]

I disagree. I know we live in a supposedly "post-industrial" economy, and we tend to think of the value of land solely from a residential redevelopment pov, but this property perfectly suits Bombardier's purposes and it is hard to move somewhere else and replicate the kind of amenities they have. Those include: a fully functioning private runway, rail access, highway access and a giant factory building designed to spec. Given the cost of building any of those things, I wouldn't move even if residential property developers offered me $5 billion - which they wouldn't.

They also have an appreciating asset of significant value to banks (easy to dump on bankruptcy) so can be heavily borrowed against for other capital projects.

 

[kEiThZ]

They could sell the land, use the proceeds to build a new plant here......

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sour....758047,-79.881222&spn=0.013793,0.038495&z=15

Or, they could sell the land, pocket the money and take the jobs and manufacturing somewhere else!

Too close to Pearson's airspace. Too far from all their suppliers and their employees. And scarcely worth the risk that developers will actually pony up the billions needed for the move and cover the financial risks of the transition.

 

[kEiThZ]

I am amazed that Bombardier is sitting on that land for as long as they are. With two subway stations, Bombardier should relocate and sell that land, as it has the potential to accommodate tens of thousands of condo units as well as thousands of new jobs (more than will be lost if Bombardier moves). Similar to how Buttonville airport is being redeveloped as well.

You are severely underestimating what it costs to develop an aerospace manufacturing capability, particuarly with regards to a final assembly line. And you are highly over-estimating what developers would pay.

And it's not just the plant. There's a lot of suppliers in the vicinity who would need to relocate too. And thousands of their employees.

Buttonville was a money losing airport. It closed down when the subsidies ended. The Bombardier plant is nothing like that at all. But if ever the business case changes, you can bet that Bombardier will take the money and move.

 

[BMO]

You are severely underestimating what it costs to develop an aerospace manufacturing capability, particuarly with regards to a final assembly line. And you are highly over-estimating what developers would pay.

And it's not just the plant. There's a lot of suppliers in the vicinity who would need to relocate too. And thousands of their employees.

Buttonville was a money losing airport. It closed down when the subsidies ended. The Bombardier plant is nothing like that at all. But if ever the business case changes, you can bet that Bombardier will take the money and move.

Buttonville was one of the busiest airports with some of the most air traffic movement, in Canada. I'd like to see proof that it wasn't making money, I know the company that owns the lands, was mandated to close down by the federal government, to pave demand for pickering airport.

 

[c_9]

Sorry for taking this thread slightly off-topic, but I didn't spot this information in my searches here or elsewhere yet.

Does anyone have a list of the distances (not travel times) between TTC subway stations? I've seen statements like "Madrid built 15km of subway per year" and I'd like to explore that sort of stat for the TTC. Any links or resources welcome, and thanks in advance!

 

[kkgg7]

Sorry for taking this thread slightly off-topic, but I didn't spot this information in my searches here or elsewhere yet.

Does anyone have a list of the distances (not travel times) between TTC subway stations? I've seen statements like "Madrid built 15km of subway per year" and I'd like to explore that sort of stat for the TTC. Any links or resources welcome, and thanks in advance!

such distance is listed at wikipedia.
15km per year is not that impressive, is it? Shanghai built more than 40km per year every year since 2008 and now it is longer than London or New York. They had the first line in 1995 and now it has 434km and 277 stations. It has 30 interchange stations alone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro

 

[vz64]

such distance is listed at wikipedia.
15km per year is not that impressive, is it? Shanghai built more than 40km per year every year since 2008 and now it is longer than London or New York. They had the first line in 1995 and now it has 434km and 277 stations. It has 30 interchange stations alone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro

and the population of Shanghai is what? 23 mln? So, in the context of population the growth is decent, but not outstanding (as in Madrid... )Even 434km per 23 mln is less per capita coverage than 70 km of TTC...

 

[kEiThZ]

Buttonville was one of the busiest airports with some of the most air traffic movement, in Canada. I'd like to see proof that it wasn't making money, I know the company that owns the lands, was mandated to close down by the federal government, to pave demand for pickering airport.

http://www.thestar.com/article/593863

Buttonville got an annual $1.5 million subsidy from the GTAA. Busy does not necessarily equal profitable. Particularly when you are talking relatively broke private pilots.

Aside from that, the land simply worth a hell of a lot more to the Sifton family for its development potential, than as a GA airport.

 

[c_9]

such distance is listed at wikipedia.
15km per year is not that impressive, is it? Shanghai built more than 40km per year every year since 2008 and now it is longer than London or New York. They had the first line in 1995 and now it has 434km and 277 stations. It has 30 interchange stations alone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro

a) I just made up the number for Madrid as an example. No idea on actual numbers.
b) No, the physical distances between stations are not listed on Wikipedia, unless they're really well hidden! A link would be much appreciated.

 

[spliffman]

such distance is listed at wikipedia.
15km per year is not that impressive, is it? Shanghai built more than 40km per year every year since 2008 and now it is longer than London or New York. They had the first line in 1995 and now it has 434km and 277 stations. It has 30 interchange stations alone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro

And have you seen the safety record of the Shanghai subway lately? Trains smashing into the backs of other trains due to shoddy signals. Anyone can build 40km a year, but can they build 40km safely????

 

[UD2]

And have you seen the safety record of the Shanghai subway lately? Trains smashing into the backs of other trains due to shoddy signals. Anyone can build 40km a year, but can they build 40km safely????

because subway trains in Toronto, New York, and London have never crashed into the back of other subway trains.

oh wait, they have.

But at least we can build our 1.6km/year safely and without incidents. Oh, nevermind, that was before yesterday.

 

[TOareaFan]

Too close to Pearson's airspace. Too far from all their suppliers and their employees. And scarcely worth the risk that developers will actually pony up the billions needed for the move and cover the financial risks of the transition.

I was kinda makin' a "if TO wants to chase these jobs out in favor of more condos, we might find a home for them in Peel". Should have included a or a I guess

 

[UD2]

Although Toronto has not been chasing employment out of the city. Our employment areas around the city are almost completely untouched by recent residential developments and, if anything, our condo developments in the downtown core are bringing jobs back into the city.

 

[Jonny5]

And have you seen the safety record of the Shanghai subway lately? Trains smashing into the backs of other trains due to shoddy signals. Anyone can build 40km a year, but can they build 40km safely????

Not to mention how much easier it is to build 40km a year when you screw over your own population to do it. Make no mistake the Shanghai government, and every other large city in China, is functionally bankrupt. Even after last year's 3 trillion yuan emergency money printing bailout, these governments still can't function without inflows from the central government's massive new indirect taxes. Government owned banks in China now offer near near 0% interest rates on deposits while inflation is well over 6%. In a country where people save 60% of their incomes in bank accounts, it is financially devastating. But hey, property prices keep going up, and there are as many people in China as there are in a certain thread on this board who believe that they will never go down. So more subways for everyone, at least as long as the central government keeps printing money to bailout it's banks, who lend money to the cities that can't pay it back, over and over.

Oh and they need it, because if Toronto's system is "pathetic", Beijing's is total f****** garbage. There are now stations with a 1 hour wait just to enter the station and get in line to go down to the platform to wait to board a train. Read that last sentence twice while you look at this average rush hour crowd.

I pity the poor people who have to deal with China's safety record.

 

[BMO]

http://www.thestar.com/article/593863

Buttonville got an annual $1.5 million subsidy from the GTAA. Busy does not necessarily equal profitable. Particularly when you are talking relatively broke private pilots.

Aside from that, the land simply worth a hell of a lot more to the Sifton family for its development potential, than as a GA airport.

Thanks for the link Keithz, I was aware of the profit to be made from re-developing the lands, but was not aware of the $1.5 million subsidy.