Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

Poor Choices

The Spadina subway line continues to build it's stations in remote areas, the original line should never have gone up the Allen and should have been built along an artery such as Bathurst or Dufferin to create a better street level ambiance, but instead we have stations in the middle of nowhere such as Glencairn, Lawrence West, Wilson, Downsview that add very little or nothing to the street level. If it had been built up Dufferin north of Eglinton instead of the Allen, Dufferin would have transformed into a beautiful road but instead we have a disgusting mix of strip malls, plazas, and industrial malls mixed in with some bungalows along that route. They had a chance to rectify this but the insanity continues as they still put stations in obscure locations. There is very little residential, commercial, or office to justify why the Chesswood and York University North stations are being built. The subway should have had stops at Sheppard/Keele, Keele/Finch, York University, Jane/Steeles, Jane/407, and Jane/Hwy7. This would have help build up both Jane and Keele at major intersections, along those nasty stretches with tower in the park style apartments. Why does this subway continue to make it's own convoluted route and not parallel existing roads to build up the above street level atmosphere?
 
toronto_the_good said:
The Spadina subway line continues to build it's stations in remote areas, the original line should never have gone up the Allen and should have been built along an artery such as Bathurst or Dufferin to create a better street level ambiance, but instead we have stations in the middle of nowhere such as Glencairn, Lawrence West, Wilson, Downsview that add very little or nothing to the street level. If it had been built up Dufferin north of Eglinton instead of the Allen, Dufferin would have transformed into a beautiful road but instead we have a disgusting mix of strip malls, plazas, and industrial malls mixed in with some bungalows along that route. They had a chance to rectify this but the insanity continues as they still put stations in obscure locations. There is very little residential, commercial, or office to justify why the Chesswood and York University North stations are being built. The subway should have had stops at Sheppard/Keele, Keele/Finch, York University, Jane/Steeles, Jane/407, and Jane/Hwy7. This would have help build up both Jane and Keele at major intersections, along those nasty stretches with tower in the park style apartments. Why does this subway continue to make it's own convoluted route and not parallel existing roads to build up the above street level atmosphere?
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Worse yet is pedestrian access to the Subway entrances on the Spadina at Eglinton West and Lawrence West. One has to cross access ramps to Allen Road. If they had at least built entrances so pedestrians would not have to face traffic lights or motor vehicles to get into the stations, that would have been an improvement.
 
toronto_the_good said:
The Spadina subway line continues to build it's stations in remote areas, the original line should never have gone up the Allen and should have been built along an artery such as Bathurst or Dufferin to create a better street level ambiance, but instead we have stations in the middle of nowhere such as Glencairn, Lawrence West, Wilson, Downsview that add very little or nothing to the street level. If it had been built up Dufferin north of Eglinton instead of the Allen, Dufferin would have transformed into a beautiful road but instead we have a disgusting mix of strip malls, plazas, and industrial malls mixed in with some bungalows along that route. They had a chance to rectify this but the insanity continues as they still put stations in obscure locations. There is very little residential, commercial, or office to justify why the Chesswood and York University North stations are being built. The subway should have had stops at Sheppard/Keele, Keele/Finch, York University, Jane/Steeles, Jane/407, and Jane/Hwy7. This would have help build up both Jane and Keele at major intersections, along those nasty stretches with tower in the park style apartments. Why does this subway continue to make it's own convoluted route and not parallel existing roads to build up the above street level atmosphere?
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Agreed that the existing subway should have been built up Dufferin rather than up Allen. I guess they decided to save money by not digging under Dufferin, but that reduced the usability of the subway.

However speaking of the extension being currently built, adding a Sheppard/Keele station would be quite difficult since the tail tracks at Downsview station are pointing north, and subway needs wide curves if it has to make a turn. Chesswood station is a lot easier to build, and they are planning to add some highrises as well as a GO station on the Barrie line.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Worse yet is pedestrian access to the Subway entrances on the Spadina at Eglinton West and Lawrence West. One has to cross access ramps to Allen Road. If they had at least built entrances so pedestrians would not have to face traffic lights or motor vehicles to get into the stations, that would have been an improvement.
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I was shocked that when they did the study to improve pedestrian access in the Lawrence Heights area that it didn't occur to them to put an automatic entrance from Lawrence West station to Dell Park Ave. Pedestrian access should improve anyway, when they remove the southbound ramps to the Allen from Lawrence.

Rainforest said:
However speaking of the extension being currently built, adding a Sheppard/Keele station would be quite difficult since the tail tracks at Downsview station are pointing north, and subway needs wide curves if it has to make a turn. Chesswood station is a lot easier to build, and they are planning to add some highrises as well as a GO station on the Barrie line.
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They are not planning to add any highrises around Downsview Park subway/GO station because it is in the flight path of Downsview Airport. They are, however, planning to build more highrises around the existing Downsview Station.
 
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There should not be ramps at Lawrence Avenue leading southwards to Eglinton Avenue, as well as ramps exiting to Lawrence Avenue from Eglinton Avenue. It is a waste of space and a viable alternative exists. It is called MARLEE AVENUE! It is much faster than the Allen between Lawrence and Eglinton. If there is an automatic entrance at Viewmount Avenue, then there should be an automatic entrance at Dell Park Avenue, as well as one at Alburn Road (with a walkway).

Yes, I live on Marlee Avenue.
 
reaperexpress said:
They are not planning to add any highrises around Downsview Park subway/GO station because it is in the flight path of Downsview Airport. They are, however, planning to build more highrises around the existing Downsview Station.
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I am amazed that Bombardier is sitting on that land for as long as they are. With two subway stations, Bombardier should relocate and sell that land, as it has the potential to accommodate tens of thousands of condo units as well as thousands of new jobs (more than will be lost if Bombardier moves). Similar to how Buttonville airport is being redeveloped as well.
 
andrewpmk said:
I am amazed that Bombardier is sitting on that land for as long as they are. With two subway stations, Bombardier should relocate and sell that land, as it has the potential to accommodate tens of thousands of condo units as well as thousands of new jobs (more than will be lost if Bombardier moves). Similar to how Buttonville airport is being redeveloped as well.
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They could sell the land, use the proceeds to build a new plant here......

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sour....758047,-79.881222&spn=0.013793,0.038495&z=15

Or, they could sell the land, pocket the money and take the jobs and manufacturing somewhere else!
 
andrewpmk said:
I am amazed that Bombardier is sitting on that land for as long as they are. With two subway stations, Bombardier should relocate and sell that land, as it has the potential to accommodate tens of thousands of condo units as well as thousands of new jobs (more than will be lost if Bombardier moves). Similar to how Buttonville airport is being redeveloped as well.
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I disagree. I know we live in a supposedly "post-industrial" economy, and we tend to think of the value of land solely from a residential redevelopment pov, but this property perfectly suits Bombardier's purposes and it is hard to move somewhere else and replicate the kind of amenities they have. Those include: a fully functioning private runway, rail access, highway access and a giant factory building designed to spec. Given the cost of building any of those things, I wouldn't move even if residential property developers offered me $5 billion - which they wouldn't.
 
HOw BIG is the Bombardier land in comparison to CITY PLACE or Water Front West... I guess city place is the best example since we can all imagine easily how many CONDOs could actually fit in such a small space... Im thinking with 3 SUBWAY stops so close (Sheppard West, Downsview, Wilson) a NEW GO stop and close access to the 401 this could become a HUGE HOT SPOT....
 
Hipster Duck said:
I disagree. I know we live in a supposedly "post-industrial" economy, and we tend to think of the value of land solely from a residential redevelopment pov, but this property perfectly suits Bombardier's purposes and it is hard to move somewhere else and replicate the kind of amenities they have. Those include: a fully functioning private runway, rail access, highway access and a giant factory building designed to spec. Given the cost of building any of those things, I wouldn't move even if residential property developers offered me $5 billion - which they wouldn't.
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Yes but an airport and aircraft manufacturing facility is a very low density land use - it creates very few jobs per sq km, even compared to your typical industrial area. Redevelopment of this site need not be entirely condos - it could also include office space (aimed at competing with 905 business parks) and possibly some industrial space (sort of like Don Mills) - this would create a LOT more jobs than would be lost when Bombardier relocates to another airport. Same thing with the Finch/Keele oil storage tanks - replacing them with office space or manufacturing would create a lot more jobs than would be lost. It's hard to justify spending billions on a subway extension if you don't plan to redevelop the land around it.
 
andrewpmk said:
Yes but an airport and aircraft manufacturing facility is a very low density land use - it creates very few jobs per sq km, even compared to your typical industrial area. Redevelopment of this site need not be entirely condos - it could also include office space (aimed at competing with 905 business parks) and possibly some industrial space (sort of like Don Mills) - this would create a LOT more jobs than would be lost when Bombardier relocates to another airport. Same thing with the Finch/Keele oil storage tanks - replacing them with office space or manufacturing would create a lot more jobs than would be lost. It's hard to justify spending billions on a subway extension if you don't plan to redevelop the land around it.
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Note though that the Bombardier jobs are unique and mostly require unique expertize, whereas typical office jobs or typical industrial area jobs are just that, typical. They would be just transferred from another location within GTA; whereas the Bombardier jobs would be lost for GTA if the airport is moved.
 
andrewpmk said:
Yes but an airport and aircraft manufacturing facility is a very low density land use - it creates very few jobs per sq km, even compared to your typical industrial area. Redevelopment of this site need not be entirely condos - it could also include office space (aimed at competing with 905 business parks) and possibly some industrial space (sort of like Don Mills) - this would create a LOT more jobs than would be lost when Bombardier relocates to another airport. Same thing with the Finch/Keele oil storage tanks - replacing them with office space or manufacturing would create a lot more jobs than would be lost. It's hard to justify spending billions on a subway extension if you don't plan to redevelop the land around it.
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What I'm saying is that the perfect conditions for aircraft assembly take place right there. It's not the private runway, or the nearby highway, nearby railway or large plant - it's all 4 in combination. Not to mention the fact that it is in the middle of a metropolis from which you can draw the vast, skilled labour pool that you need. That's very difficult to find, so I wouldn't be surprised if Bombardier resisted any bid to redevelop this land until, of course, they decide to stop manufacturing planes.

The tank farm is another difficult site to redevelop. Not only is it contaminated with hazardous materials, but the infrastructure to supply the fuel for a vast region is all concentrated there, whether it's pipelines or rail yards. It's very expensive - and also a NIMBY nightmare - to relocate this anywhere else in the region, so I wouldn't be surprised if the tank farm is there to say as well.
 
More importantly the Bombardier plant would create many spin-off jobs due to what they are manufacturing. The simpler the product the less jobs it takes to make.

The Downsview Area Secondary Plan provides more than enough density in the immediate area for the subway station. The William Baker and Sheppard Neighbourhoods are well within walking distance of the new Downsview Park / Sheppard West subway station.
 
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