Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[cbrown2009]

In case this has been lost amongst the pages:

Hwy 407 Bus Terminal
Bus Platforms:
Platform 1 EB: (25F, 40) York University/Richmond Hill Centre
Platform 2 EB: (46, 47-F, 48-B, F ) York University
Platform 8 WB: (46) Square One/Erin Mills Transitway/Oakville GO
Platform 9 WB: (47-F) Bramalea GO/McMaster University
Platform 10 WB: (48-B,F)Bramalea GO/Meadowvale GO/ University of Guelph
Platform 17 WB: (25F) Bramalea GO/Wilfred Laurier University/University of Waterloo
Platform 18 WB: (40) Pearson Airport/Renforth Transitway/Square One/Hamilton GO

http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot/en/travelling/stations.aspx?station=407T

Is this in place now?

I wonder if all York U bound buses use Platform 1 or do each platforms have multiple directions.

The platform assignments are pretty much in place. But a large printout of the current platform assignments in a central location inside the terminal would be most useful. I had a bit of a time trying to figure out where my bus (47 westbound) was going to come in yesterday, especially as its platform sign isn't visible from the main entranceway at the top of the escalators from the subway. No signs inside, no screens, no door closers to keep the doors shut, no heat (to speak of). Still some work to do, hopefully quick fast.

 

[Richard White]

York region seems to believe that the presence of a subway station will magically increase density which will magically increase ridership, it won't

I was there when they were building the station in 2013 and when it opened. There is not much more density now than there was before.

Nobody wants to build offices in Vaughan, condos etc when all the major companies, employers, etc are based out of Downtown Toronto. The larger companies in Canada, the places people want to work by necessity have to be close to other related businesses. Large banks cannot work outside the financial districts, major law offices want to be near Osgoode Hall and the Courthouses. Even large companies like PWC, Sunlife amongst others need to be downtown close to the financial district, banks, law offices etc. You cannot just place them in York Region and call it good.

York Region has plenty of bus routes but they needed to run the subway to Vaughan Mills to make it viable. Had they done that they could have turned it into a CCTT style terminal. You win some you lose some I guess.

 

[cbrown2009]

There is the one RBC tower at Edgeley, plus the condos at Weston Rd, albeit on the other side of the 400 so not the most pleasant walk. A quick BRT ride away when that gets done though, and it's in the works. And there's a rumour I saw somewhere on UT that the Walmart is actively looking for a new home as well.

I think we need to give it more time. I can see more office towers and condos going up closer to VMC within 5 years

 

[Richard White]

Condo developments born out of a billion dollar investment do not impress me. It's not as if Toronto is starved for condominium development - it's not as if we needed to spend a billion dollars to get a handful of condo buildings. There are countless places those condos could've gone at a cost to taxpayers of $0. Why this attitude that we have to artificially induce transit demand through development, when there are countless places in the GTHA that are transit starved despite already having the demand?

Honestly, the Yonge Extension would have been a better bet. Richmond Hill is far more developed than Vaughan and is ripe with demand. That is why I call this a politically motivated extension, everyone knew the demand wasn't there but Sorbara was close with McGuinty and 2006 was an election year. Do the math.

 

[Streety McCarface]

While I understand the notion of comparing Sheppard to the Vaughn extension, the analogy is not a fair one.

Sheppard is an east/west route thru the suburbs and often people travelling from suburb to suburb have both a car and the luxury of free parking. The Spadina extension on the other hand will hold two primary riders............those going downtown and those going to York U. neither of these destinations offer free or even affordable parking and even if you have the money, parking is often hard to come by. Also the traffic to get downtown is horrid and Vaughn, unlike people at Don Mills/Markham do not have a fast or direct way of getting downtown.

As for York U, most students don't have or cannot afford to drive their cars to school so there is a captive audience. When development happens at VCC, it will be there due to the subway which will be the areas main selling point so many moving to VCC will do so precisely because they don't need a car to get to school, downtown or shopping ie Yorkdale. Also being along a subway route makes bus transfers easier to other destinations as most main routes begin/end at a subway station.

Burnaby's Metrotown was just another mall with a few low rises surrounding it but it is with the introduction of SkyTrain that lead to the soaring local population and ridership. This is also the case with the newer Millenium Line which is seeing massive condo tower development and soaring populations at Brentwood and Lougheed Malls.

1. Sheppard serves people going Downtown, and the traffic down the DVP is arguably worse than Allen Rd and most certainly the 427
2. You do have Scena college, CCNM, Bayview Village, Concord Park Place, Oriole GO, and CF Mall. Education (though not as much, though mind you, the extension is longer by 3 km), GO Transit, and entertainment. You also have development at Concord Park Place for Sheppard, compare that to VMC, CPP and Bayview Village are much bigger and are greater densification justifications than what is being built at VMC.
3. As I've stated before in other threads, housing density doesn't really matter, it's job density and connectivity to surface routes that will make or break a transit line, especially north of the 401.

Condo developments born out of a billion dollar investment do not impress me. It's not as if Toronto is starved for condominium development - it's not as if we needed to spend a billion dollars to get a handful of condo buildings. There are countless places those condos could've gone at a cost to taxpayers of $0. Why this attitude that we have to artificially induce transit demand through development, when there are countless places in the GTHA that are transit starved despite already having the demand?

Condo developments, especially along sheppard would be significantly greater had the zoning farther around subway stations was changed. Instead, we kept it as a suburb.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Honestly, the Yonge Extension would have been a better bet. Richmond Hill is far more developed than Vaughan and is ripe with demand. That is why I call this a politically motivated extension, everyone knew the demand wasn't there but Sorbara was close with McGuinty and 2006 was an election year. Do the math.

That would have totally clogged the Yonge Line. At least some people may shift over to the spadina side with this extension.

 

[Richard White]

There is the one RBC tower at Edgeley, plus the condos at Weston Rd, albeit on the other side of the 400 so not the most pleasant walk. A quick BRT ride away when that gets done though, and it's in the works. And there's a rumour I saw somewhere on UT that the Walmart is actively looking for a new home as well.

I think we need to give it more time. I can see more office towers and condos going up closer to VMC within 5 years

Possible but unlikely. The RBC tower in Vaughan is likely a call centre or satellite office designed to handle menial work. The RBC tower than will make or break RBC is in Toronto, There is a reason you have 4 banks headquartered on 4 corners in downtown Toronto right next to the stock exchange. They need info in a timely fashion and need to be close to the action because when shit hits the fan it does not help being 40 minutes away.

 

[Richard White]

That would have totally clogged the Yonge Line. At least some people may shift over to the spadina side with this extension.

True but keep in mind that Yonge Street and even Bathurst running through Thornhill are quite far from the extension.

 

[Richard White]

Perhaps demand will eventually come. I still remember in the early 1990s (91/92) when Maple and Vaughan were still tiny little townships with only a few homes and plenty of open spaces. Same with Keswick, Port Perry and Alliston at the time.

All those cities are now quite expensive and increasingly populated. It took almost 30 years for that to happen though.

 

[Streety McCarface]

True but keep in mind that Yonge Street and even Bathurst running through Thornhill are quite far from the extension.

If we saw a similar growth to Sheppard (it would probably be even higher), the ridership would double. Assuming 15 thousand people, that's an extra 15 thousand people travelling down the subway, every day. It may not seem like much, but we're at capacity, and if 8 thousand people rush downtown in the two hours of morning, that's 4 thousand extra people on the subway.

 

[Richard White]

If we saw a similar growth to Sheppard (it would probably be even higher), the ridership would double. Assuming 15 thousand people, that's an extra 15 thousand people travelling down the subway, every day. It may not seem like much, but we're at capacity, and if 8 thousand people rush downtown in the two hours of morning, that's 4 thousand extra people on the subway.

Good point. Along Yonge just north of Steeles you have a ton of condos already and Centerpoint Mall along with Richmond Hill Centre and VIVA BRT. Without the DRL you would be screwed.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Possible but unlikely. The RBC tower in Vaughan is likely a call centre or satellite office designed to handle menial work. The RBC tower than will make or break RBC is in Toronto, There is a reason you have 4 banks headquartered on 4 corners in downtown Toronto right next to the stock exchange. They need info in a timely fashion and need to be close to the action because when shit hits the fan it does not help being 40 minutes away.

Is that still true with the internet age?

That said, in many service industries, physical proximity to other firms working in the industry is crucial. It's necessary to attract talent (recruitment is easier when a prospective employee works literally across the street), for networking and to remain competitive. You're never going to see top tier firms locate their critical staff outside of downtown Toronto, unless there is a huge cultural shift.

Condo developments, especially along sheppard would be significantly greater had the zoning farther around subway stations was changed. Instead, we kept it as a suburb.

Note that my comment was with regards to TYSSE, and specifically VMC Station. Sheppard Line is a whole different issue.

With regards to Sheppard Line, there still exists a lot of underdeveloped lands, such as strip malls, close to subway stations that can readily be redeveloped, so I don't think zoning is holding back development along that corridor.

 

[Streety McCarface]

With regards to Sheppard Line, there still exists a lot of underdeveloped lands, such as strip malls, close to subway stations that can readily be redeveloped, so I don't think zoning is holding back development along that corridor.

NIMBYISM almost cancelled CPP, and it severely fought that low rise condo next to bessarion. There are a lot of houses there and there's a lot of redevelopment potential, however, they're not going to do anything because it's will impede suburban life as people there know it. The area will densify eventually, but it will take another 10-15 years, specifically as the generations change. The area will become super attractive for even more condos and the existing people living in the area will only use the subway to get around.

 

[Richard White]

That said, in many service industries, physical proximity to other firms working in the industry is crucial. It's necessary to attract talent (recruitment is easier when a prospective employee works literally across the street), for networking and to remain competitive. You're never going to see top tier firms locate their critical staff outside of downtown Toronto, unless there is a huge cultural shift.

I have friends who are principals at Gowlings Law Firm, Blackswan Dexteritas (investment firm) and knew people who were executive VPs at Sunlife and another who owned a large accounting firm.

Simply put they are located in Toronto for a reason. The Law Firm is close to the businesses they work with (so they can better serve clients), the investment firm is close to the financial district so they can meet clients. Same with sunlife and the accounting firm, the clients are in Toronto so why would you move to Vaughan?

 

[Sandpit]

I was there when they were building the station in 2013 and when it opened. There is not much more density now than there was before.

Nobody wants to build offices in Vaughan, condos etc when all the major companies, employers, etc are based out of Downtown Toronto. The larger companies in Canada, the places people want to work by necessity have to be close to other related businesses. Large banks cannot work outside the financial districts, major law offices want to be near Osgoode Hall and the Courthouses. Even large companies like PWC, Sunlife amongst others need to be downtown close to the financial district, banks, law offices etc. You cannot just place them in York Region and call it good.

York Region has plenty of bus routes but they needed to run the subway to Vaughan Mills to make it viable. Had they done that they could have turned it into a CCTT style terminal. You win some you lose some I guess.

I think by 2031, VMC will resemble Mississauga City Centre, but without the mall. Building the city centre around a mall is supposedly Hazel's Biggest Regret, so this is basically what Mississauga wishes it's city centre was like.