Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Yesterday I noticed that I was on a train that had "Vaughan" on the destination sign. It didn't scroll like "Sheppard West" does. Not exciting, just an observation.

I'm pretty disappointed the TTC decided against putting the full fledged "Vaughan Corporate Metropolis Downtown Station" on the destinations signs, it's pretty unfortunate.

Damnit... I want to know WHERE in Vaughan I am going...

All joking aside though technically both 407 Station and VMC are both in Vaughan. I can see them changing that sometime due to people being people.

My guess would be they are only putting Vaughn on the front of the trains to keep it clear what the end destination is as not everyone will be able to read it in the legth of time it takles to scroll though the whole name.If yoir luicky it may scrool though it once or twice as it crolsses the patform.

 

[Richard White]

When I was in London the terminal of the Bakerloo Line was both Elephant and Castle and in some cases Harrow and Wealdstone.

They had platform displays indicating where the train was going along with announcements going something along the lines of "the next train arriving on platform one is the westbound Bakerloo line service to.. elephant and castle" the platform signs also indicated what the next three departures were.

They had essentially idiot proofed it.

On the front of trains they were putting Harrow and W'ldstone because it would not fit on all trains. The point is it can be done.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

On the front of trains they were putting Harrow and W'ldstone because it would not fit on all trains. The point is it can be done.

The ones on line 4 scroll Shepeard Youge. I get that it can be done but they probably want to be practical and just keep it simple most people, will see vaughn anfd know it's going to the last satop in vaughn. Plus don't fort they are curently addinfg the side signs as well whhich might scroll the whole name as it will be able to be red easier when the train is on the platform rather than just the ones at the front. I think the side ones will become much more impaotyanas pole will be able to idefertu the tyrain much eauer then they can now.

 

[junctionist]

Damnit... I want to know WHERE in Vaughan I am going...

All joking aside though technically both 407 Station and VMC are both in Vaughan. I can see them changing that sometime due to people being people.

Agreed. I wanted Vaughan METROPOLITAN CENTRE. I refuse to settle for downtown Toronto or Scarborough Town Centre. I want the city above Toronto. I want the Metropolitan Centre! I demand it!

 

[Richard White]

Agreed. I wanted Vaughan METROPOLITAN CENTRE. I refuse to settle for downtown Toronto or Scarborough Town Centre. I want the city above Toronto. I want the Metropolitan Centre! I demand it!

Hmm.. will you at least accept Vaughan Metropolitan Centre via Downtown

 

[junctionist]

Hmm.. will you at least accept Vaughan Metropolitan Centre via Downtown

No, I won't accept any compromises. It's Vaughan Metropolitan Centre or bust! I want the mosaic plaza within walking distance of the Home Sense. I want the clamshell subway entranceways where the stairs don't get covered in snow. Pristine condo towers whose development ambition is as strong as a dog's hold on a sausage. I want a better future. And without waiting.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Jasonzed posted some great photos of the Vaughan Centre station recently in the Photos and Videos section of the forum:

I'm going to take a guess and say that the YRT terminal isn't going to be open on December 31st.

In terms of area development, the last photo shows the construction pit for the new library and PWC offices. Beside the walmart and behind the PWC site, will rise two 55 storey condos, and another 55 storey condo behind the YRT terminal. That will be 165 floors of residential density in the immediate vicinity by 2020.

 

[cplchanb]

Jasonzed posted some great photos of the Vaughan Centre station recently in the Photos and Videos section of the forum:





I'm going to take a guess and say that the YRT terminal isn't going to be open on December 31st.

In terms of area development, the last photo shows the construction pit for the new library and PWC offices. Beside the walmart and behind the PWC site, will rise two 55 storey condos, and another 55 storey condo behind the YRT terminal. That will be 165 floors of residential density in the immediate vicinity by 2020.

no the YRT terminal was always scheduled for a spring 18 opening...but on that note, that thing is huge! Its even larger than the subway bubble

the skylights on the VMC roof look really random and sloppy though....

 

[BMO]

looking at those photos, I am sooooooooo looking forward to so many people eating their words about "a subway to nowhere". We've got development started AND built even before the subway opens, with plenty more space to be infilled. I can't say I see the same type of activity happening anywhere around the Toronto portion of this extension nor recall anything like this prior to the Sheppard subway being built. Almost like having proper zoning in place BEFORE you build transit in a suburban area directs growth appropriately.

Having the transit line built before the proper zoning just makes the land so much more expensive for developing.

 

[amnesiajune]

What's different about Vaughan is that there's a good reason (significantly lower taxes) for businesses to build big offices there. Even with North York Centre and Yonge-Eglinton, supposedly Toronto's "second downtowns", there's been essentially no employment growth since amalgamation because it doesn't make sense for anyone to set up shop there when downtown is barely more expensive.

The land itself is subject to supply and demand. There's no "subway surcharge". If nobody wants to build on a tract of land, people will buy there. What's happened on Sheppard is that, because of its proximity to both the subway and the 401, the land has much more value for residential development than for office development. There's a ton of demand from people who want to live somewhere transit-accessible but have a job that isn't.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Trust me, Vaughan is really pushing to get any office uses in there. There are huge subsidies involved, and they have literally banned large scale office buildings (I think its over 100,000sf) from being built anywhere else in the municipality. They are really pushing it.

It is fairly desirable for office tenants as well, as the site has easy 400 and 407 access, and they can attract downtown talent with the subway. The problem is that urban format office buildings are inherently more expensive since parking has to be shoved underground or in structures, which is a huge expense, especially at the rates required for the auto dependancy of these offices. Even with the subway, probably 90% of employees will still drive.

That said, VMC is the hottest condo market in the GTA right now. Nearly 3,000 units have sold in the area over the last 2 years.

 

[BMO]

What's different about Vaughan is that there's a good reason (significantly lower taxes) for businesses to build big offices there. Even with North York Centre and Yonge-Eglinton, supposedly Toronto's "second downtowns", there's been essentially no employment growth since amalgamation because it doesn't make sense for anyone to set up shop there when downtown is barely more expensive.

The land itself is subject to supply and demand. There's no "subway surcharge". If nobody wants to build on a tract of land, people will buy there. What's happened on Sheppard is that, because of its proximity to both the subway and the 401, the land has much more value for residential development than for office development. There's a ton of demand from people who want to live somewhere transit-accessible but have a job that isn't.

I mean, VMC is right by two provincial highways (that actually move, unlike 401) and a regional highway plus a BRT line and a future subway, I don't see how that there isn't a clear similarity in terms of the urban form between Sheppard and VMC. Not sure I follow your logic outside of lower tax rates and the competitiveness of Vaughan vs Midtown/Inner burbs vs downtown which I think is a valid thing to say.

 

[innsertnamehere]

tax rates having an effect is a myth. they are such a small percent of operating costs they have almost no effect.

sheppard / NYCC is simply way more difficult to get to for 905'ers. offices at VMC are easy access for suburban talent, and with the subway, now easy access for urban talent as well.

 

[amnesiajune]

I mean, VMC is right by two provincial highways (that actually move, unlike 401) and a regional highway plus a BRT line and a future subway, I don't see how that there isn't a clear similarity in terms of the urban form between Sheppard and VMC. Not sure I follow your logic outside of lower tax rates and the competitiveness of Vaughan vs Midtown/Inner burbs vs downtown which I think is a valid thing to say.

The demand for residential is probably a bit lower than Sheppard East because of taxation too. Vaughan's taxes are around 15% higher than Toronto's for condominium units. Combine that with not-inexistent office space and you get very different development than on Sheppard East.

Tax rates having an effect is a myth. they are such a small percent of operating costs they have almost no effect.

Did something else happen in 1997 that caused North York Centre to go from a rapidly-growing employment centre to no new office building proposals?

 

[innsertnamehere]

growth in NYCC petered off in the early 2000's, not 1997.

What happened? downtown was attractive again, rents got too high, traffic got too bad.

commercial tax rates account for about 1% of total costs of an office building. Its small potatoes. The real costs are the space, and especially parking. Parking in urban locations can be half of the project budget. Suburban locations are cheaper since parking is provided at grade, meaning its $5,000 a spot instead of $50,000. Downtown is feasible since very little parking needs to be provided.. negating those costs largely. The problem lies in these semi-urban locations, where you still need the full suburban parking ratios and you have to put it in structures. It means KPMG is paying rent that approaches downtown levels while still having the suburban location.

As for residential demand, a 15% increase in property taxes is like $300 a year. Nobody cares about that when they are purchasing something that costs $500,000. As I said, there have been 3,000 units sold at VMC in the past 24 months. Hardly low demand.