smallspy
Senior Member
That's the point. On the Spadina line, it's not hugely different. Elsewhere on the YUS, the ridership in the afternoon peak is considerably lower than it is in the morning.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group
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That's the point. On the Spadina line, it's not hugely different. Elsewhere on the YUS, the ridership in the afternoon peak is considerably lower than it is in the morning.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Richard White
Senior Member
I just came from London where they have branches, short turns etc all on the same line. Take the Northern Line in London for example where you have a branch to Mill Hill East shooting off the branch to High Barnet. At the same time, trains turn back at Tooting Bec, Morden and Kennington all on the same line. There are also two branches on the Northern Line not to mention a left and right side to the line (which basically looks like a circle). See here:
Hell the Bakerloo Line there had regular turnbacks at Harrow and Wealdstone, Stonebridge Park and Queens Park without any issues. People just have to keep an eye out on the LED screens to figure out where the next train is going. Failing that there were audio announcements indicating where the next train was headed and even tube maps with the current station as the starting point indicating the possible terminals.
The world has not come to an end in London and both people and tourists alike manage to deal with the turnbacks without any major issues. It actually helps because the terminals of the lines go so far out that not many people are left upon arrival. I think the only terminal with a reasonable amount of people is Heathrow and that while in a far off zone is because of the airport.
I am sure Toronto will manage with turnbacks but to be effective they need to be at a certain point not scattered about, they also need to be regular turnbacks (i.e. 4 trains per hour go to VMC with 7 going to Sheppard West per hour assuming 5 minute headways). If they do turnbacks at random points in the name of service adjustments it will just cause problems.
There are times where I hear the TTC call themselves world class and I think of places like New York, Paris and London with far more complicated systems. The TTC may have been world class back in the 1980s but that can hardly be said anymore.
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I get your point, but it irks me to no end when people call NYC's metro "world class". Their decrepit network is in worse shape than just about any other major metro in a world city I can think of thanks to decades of neglect. The only thing to be learned from that system is precisely how NOT to run a mass transit system.
cplchanb
Senior Member
I guess if one wants an example of "world class" rail, look to Tokyo and Japan in general. 99% on time to the second, always in reliably in service, accessible by all to everywhere. I think its time for TO to look further beyond "western" cities for their inspiration.
Steve X
Senior Member
The more interlining the TTC does, the more chances a train would be in the wrong place. TTC is not capable of managing a line longer than 5 stations. Even Line 4 is sometimes too difficult for the TTC to manage. Every single day there are a large number of crew changes just so the operator can make it back to the relief point on time. Trains are always late. Crew changing at like Lansdowne or Runnymede means they are at least 20-25 minutes late. Every crew change holds the trains behind them causing them to be even later.
I don't even know how they'll fix this problem. Maybe they should assign operators to sections. E.g. a bunch of operators between Kipling and Jane. They'll just swap op at Jane and head back to Kipling on another train. The worst would meant the operators would be only 10 minutes behind schedule which could be factored in their schedule avoiding the overtime issue instead of being stuck at the wrong end of the line.
Richard White
Senior Member
I doubt that would go over well. You cannot have operators working blocks. Having them tied to a line is not a bad thing but putting them in blocks is foolish. If you think crew changes are a bad idea, try waiting for operators to change at every block. You would delay them more than you would with 1 change.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
The problem with interlining is just when transit systems try to over-manage it. That was the TTC's failure in the 1960s experiment - the TTC insisted on having trains alternate destinations, so a delay on one part of the system would propagate throughout the entire system.
When you look at a system like London's or New York's, they don't bother managing it to that level. If two trains in a row show up going to the same place, they don't care.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I find it interesting that most of your references are to Line o1 the Bloor Danforth line, I actually find them to be the most efficient with crew changes. Usually when one happens it is at Coxwell and the driver will announce that there is one and the train will hold a few minutes to accommodate it, also most of the time the driver and guard are in position on the platform ready to take over as soon as the one on the train is clear sometimes they even get on before they exit. Whereas on Line 2 trains essm to just hold and wait well, the Guard and Driver leave the train without telling anyone that they are changing crews and then what seems like 10 minutes later you see them either get off of the train on the other platform or walking slowly down the stairs, meanwhile everyone onboard the train is checking ther watch and wondering why they are stopped.
Richard White
Senior Member
That was my experience with the tube. I had used the Bakerloo line frequently to get to northwest London and frequently found many 2-3 trains going to Queens Park (the closest of three terminals to Central London) and in some cases a 10-15 minute wait for trains to my destination. It was not a big deal, people waited and there was no big hubbub.
Richard White
Senior Member
I have had that happen when trains are delayed EB at High Park. The train will sit there waiting for the WB train to arrive and switch crews. For the most part it is only a few minute delay.
smallspy
Senior Member
They don't care if a train - or a streetcar, or a bus - are in the wrong place.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
TransitBart
Senior Member
Actually...
The MTA and the NYC subway system have been declared to be in crisis. See the link below.
http://www.metro.us/news/local-news/new-york/mta-state-emergency-cuomo-says
I like the NYC system too. It's big. Which makes us think it's world class. But transit in Toronto is pretty good. I used it last night to go to the baseball game where only someone with a lot of patience and cash would drive.
Our biggest beef is that there is not enough transit in Toronto. It has been a long haul from the 70s to here. It has made for some shitty commutes and worn nerves. So we have a round of funding that brought TYSSE, say $6 billion, ECLRT, say $8+ billion, GO Rail various, $13.5 billion, and this week's federal contribution which brings another say $15 billion to the table with a serious heavy rail people mover in the cards. All of that together would be a meaningful improvement and a step toward world class.
'World class' is a terrible expression. It's like 'good' or 'important'. Two things that you never say about yourself. If you have to, then you aren't.
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Richard White
Senior Member
A little off topic here but this thread appears DOA.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Well there's not much to report other than it's undergoing testing. I was on a Toronto Rocket the other day and it said Sheppard West at the front and also announced it as that too. I also saw a Toronto Rocket with a sign that said Vaughan at the front too.
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smallspy
Senior Member
Other than to increase your post count, what was the point of this?
Dan
Toronto, Ont.