Toronto Scarborough Junction Masterplan | 188.3m | 58s | Republic | Giannone Petricone

[Northern Light]

Notable highlights - breaking ground in 3-4 years, and completion in 16-20 years.

I'm quite the novice following these types of developments, wondering if this sounds normal/reasonable.

Republic is previously on the record as saying they wanted construction to run about 10 years.
But imagined it starting in 2-3.

The overall pace, in respect of ownership units, will be determined by sales. There is likely a practical limit, large sites like this rarely, if ever attempt full build-out all at once...........
But if sales are slow......it will be one building/block at a time, if they are quick.....it could be 2-3.

There are 10 development blocks proposed, each one would have a construction cycle in the 3-4 year range.
Taken completely consecutively, this would be a 30-40 year timeline. I don't see any risk of that.
So I think you can safely assume they hope to have 2 full development blocks (minimum) under construction at any one time.

I would say the lower end of that range is more likely than the high; but we shall see.

Also wondering where they got the timeline from when there wasn't much else news regarding this elsewhere. I wonder how this project will iteratively complete, will they do building blocks by building blocks? I.E - 2-3 towers every few years with the commercial spaces allocated at grade opening as the towers complete?

This will almost certainly be done in complete blocks, at least in part, insofar as each block is likely to share underground parking in common.

Though we may not see all those details til the Site Plan stage.

 

[compaqee]

Republic is previously on the record as saying they wanted construction to run about 10 years.
But imagined it starting in 2-3.

The overall pace, in respect of ownership units, will be determined by sales. There is likely a practical limit, large sites like this rarely, if ever attempt full build-out all at once...........
But if sales are slow......it will be one building/block at a time, if they are quick.....it could be 2-3.

There are 10 development blocks proposed, each one would have a construction cycle in the 3-4 year range.
Taken completely consecutively, this would be a 30-40 year timeline. I don't see any risk of that.
So I think you can safely assume they hope to have 2 full development blocks (minimum) under construction at any one time.

I would say the lower end of that range is more likely than the high; but we shall see.



This will almost certainly be done in complete blocks, at least in part, insofar as each block is likely to share underground parking in common.

Though we may not see all those details til the Site Plan stage.

Thanks for sharing your insight, love reading your posts & responses. Looking forward to seeing this come together!

 

[tstormers]

Visited this site as well this morning. This is the art installation and a bit of community benefit/engagement for the project. Very hidden and far in from St. Clair just east of Danforth. There are some maps of the proposed along the fence around the community farm (can sort of see them on the white fence under the main sign. I didn't get that photo, but my colleague did. If she sends me the photo I will add/edit this post.

 

[Northern Light]

Site Plan Approval filed here:

Development Applications

City Planning COA Application Information Center

app.toronto.ca

 

[Northern Light]

* Docs are Up *

Looks to be most the same renders from the previous page, but I'll post a couple, hopefully higher resolution.

Edit to add: Landscape Plans

Good news first:

Remarkably large planting beds, including some double-row of tree sections, extensive use of native herbaceous plants (wildflowers/ferns/grasses)

Downside: One tree that is non-native invasive (Little Leaf Linden); one other that is somewhat invasive Northern Catalpa.

Building elevations:

 

[ML555]

Is it just me, or does seeing all of those individual podium-roof garden areas NOT connected by pedestrian bridges and integrated as an above-grade park seem like a comical waste?

When I see masterplan builds like this, that do not create at least second-storey level retail or public spaces, I feel like I must return to Asia in protest.

 

[ProjectEnd]

Each of those blocks is an individual condo corporation - not sure how you'd propose making something like that public(?) or how each rooftop pays into a massive shared facilities agreement? At the end of the day, this project very much *isn't* Pinnacle Duxton for a variety of reasons so it's not just about 'connecting' things with bridges, you need to create the appropriate strata agreements and other legal fiction to facilitate it all.

 

[ML555]

Each of those blocks is an individual condo corporation - not sure how you'd propose making something like that public(?) or how each rooftop pays into a massive shared facilities agreement? At the end of the day, this project very much *isn't* Pinnacle Duxton for a variety of reasons so it's not just about 'connecting' things with bridges, you need to create the appropriate strata agreements and other legal fiction to facilitate it all.

Then I guess it is my disappointment with the inability to create a legal environment amenable to doing so.

 

[ProjectEnd]

I think 'inability' is not entirely correct - it's more like: 'extremely difficult and wouldn't add anything to Republic or Harlo's bottom line to do so'.

 

[junctionist]

I think 'inability' is not entirely correct - it's more like: 'extremely difficult and wouldn't add anything to Republic or Harlo's bottom line to do so'.

It seems like an interesting and attractive amenity for buyers to have. Thus, there's value in it and the potential to increase sale prices a bit.

 

[ProjectEnd]

TBH I don't agree. Maybe a halo of skybridges linking the tops of the towers? Maybe? But then you're running into a thousand other engineering issues and again, this isn't Linked Hybrid. I'm not sure what value a weird, isolated, exterior, +15 system is going to add to a given condo, especially since the propoent's vision here is about retail and grade-activiation.

 

[Northern Light]

TBH I don't agree. Maybe a halo of skybridges linking the tops of the towers? Maybe? But then you're running into a thousand other engineering issues and again, this isn't Linked Hybrid. I'm not sure what value a weird, isolated, exterior, +15 system is going to add to a given condo, especially since the propoent's vision here is about retail and grade-activiation.

I'm with PE here.

Lets think this one through.

1) The first thing we all talk about is a desire of an animated sidewalk/retail experience, we want to be very careful about incenting people to spend time somewhere else, away from the public realm.

2) The function of a green roof is to reduce heating that would occur if the roof were hard surface exposed to the sun, if you start introducing people into the equation you can't have them walking all over the plants, there won't be any plants anymore. In the alternative, you're starting to reintroduce hard surfaces subject to solar heating.

3) True public access to any of these spaces creates security issues for tenants/condo owners, this is even true if those residents are from different buildings.

4) Without true public access, the benefit, such as it is, is limited to a relatively small number of people.

5) Bridges from one roof to another not only create maintenance issues, they also create shadows; Toronto has rules about those......

6) The podiums spaces are still in Toronto, Canada, and are not contemplated to be winterized. No place warm to go when it's cold, no hot beverage vendors, no snow melt systems under the plants........it's no better than a six-month amenity.

7) The podiums can't really serve other purposes such as playgrounds, without diminishing their benefit as green-roofs; and even if they could, do we want to remove children from the nearby park to an exclusive, private playground?

Overall, the idea of tying these spaces together seems to have more negatives that positives in my estimation.

 

[DavidCapizzano]

Are they actually moving forward to construction, or is this just a zone and flip? Some of the tower designs are quite ambitious, but I've learned to think twice in these situations....

 

[Undead]

No pedestrian bridge over the rail corridor?

 

[Amare]

No pedestrian bridge over the rail corridor?

I'm guessing this is something the city would have to push for, as the developer probably couldnt care less.

Question is, could we extract some funds for it from S.37? I believe the province has changed the rules around S.37s in the developers favour, so we'd probably only get peanuts for any pedestrian connection.

On the bright side I love this plan; at least there's a developer out there who can see beyond just typical grid street layouts with no pedestrian only streetfronts, and useless park space. The buildings themselves look very sharp and hopefully it comes to fruition close to what we see rendered.