lordmandeep
Banned
that is why urban renewal is encouraged.
More people on the streets usually deters crime...
More people on the streets usually deters crime...
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Toronto: Safer than you think
- Thread starter St. Even
- Start date
W. K. Lis
Superstar
I wonder what the crime rate is in Algonquin Park? In winter?
Prometheus The Supremo
►Member №41+⅜◄
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- a strange reality, bizarro toronto
St. Even
Active Member
I gotta say, I find it unsettling when I see armed policemen walking around in bullet-proof vests on city streets or in a shopping mall. It makes me feel like I'm in an unsafe place that needs police protection. That's just a personal thing.
Reminds me of a trip to Cleveland around Christmas a few years ago. I was shopping with a friend in Tower City when I noticed there were THREE different security forces inside the mall. There were regular cops, there was mall security, and then many of the individual stores had another one or two private security guards. I had just made a joke about it when, sure enough, the alarm went off in one of the stores and some punk was making a dash for the door with a five-finger discount. No joke. But goes to show how effective police presence is as a deterrent.
Reminds me of a trip to Cleveland around Christmas a few years ago. I was shopping with a friend in Tower City when I noticed there were THREE different security forces inside the mall. There were regular cops, there was mall security, and then many of the individual stores had another one or two private security guards. I had just made a joke about it when, sure enough, the alarm went off in one of the stores and some punk was making a dash for the door with a five-finger discount. No joke. But goes to show how effective police presence is as a deterrent.
PukeGreen
Active Member
I totally agree with this article. Toronto is statistically an very safe city, especially when compared to US cities of similar or smaller size, and now even other Canadian cities. I've lived downtown for 14 years now and never felt truly unsafe -- I've been occasionally harassed by aggressive panhandlers, that's about as bad as it gets. I think the impression that Toronto is dangerous seems to come from two sources:
1) A basic lack of understanding that with a large population density there will be more stories to report in the news, but per capita that doesn't make the place less safe. Two murders in a town of 100,000 is exactly the same as 20 murders in a city of 1 million people, but it sounds a lot scarier. The media reports shooting and stabbings aggressively on the front page but buries other stories on page 10, which distorts the reality of their frequency.
2) The police, who always make it sound like the world is coming to an end if we don't hire another X cops by Y date. I'm not sure if this is simply a byproduct of their jobs (they are called to every violent incident, so logically they internalize this and over-estimate the danger) or an anti-urban bias (most Toronto police live in the suburbs and only come downtown to work and hence associate the city only with the scumbags they have to deal with) or simply an effort to secure jobs and funding for themselves. I suspect it's a bit of all three.
Crime and crime prevention is important, but I wish it would be kept more in perspective. Statistically far more "innocent" people die in car accidents and car-to-pedestrian incidents every year than die by the gun, or the knife.
And I don't think it is prejudice to point out that those who are not involved in criminal activity and do not spend their nights out on the street are statistically much safer than those who do engage in that type of behaviour.
1) A basic lack of understanding that with a large population density there will be more stories to report in the news, but per capita that doesn't make the place less safe. Two murders in a town of 100,000 is exactly the same as 20 murders in a city of 1 million people, but it sounds a lot scarier. The media reports shooting and stabbings aggressively on the front page but buries other stories on page 10, which distorts the reality of their frequency.
2) The police, who always make it sound like the world is coming to an end if we don't hire another X cops by Y date. I'm not sure if this is simply a byproduct of their jobs (they are called to every violent incident, so logically they internalize this and over-estimate the danger) or an anti-urban bias (most Toronto police live in the suburbs and only come downtown to work and hence associate the city only with the scumbags they have to deal with) or simply an effort to secure jobs and funding for themselves. I suspect it's a bit of all three.
Crime and crime prevention is important, but I wish it would be kept more in perspective. Statistically far more "innocent" people die in car accidents and car-to-pedestrian incidents every year than die by the gun, or the knife.
And I don't think it is prejudice to point out that those who are not involved in criminal activity and do not spend their nights out on the street are statistically much safer than those who do engage in that type of behaviour.
junctionist
Senior Member
adma
Superstar
Funny thing is that the way this year started, it almost seemed like the 905 was headed for more murders than the 416--maybe that counts as a turning point...
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I was in Israel in 2005, and everyone in military or police uniform was fully armed, and due to this, I felt very safe. As you said, it's a personal thing, which in my case means if the good guys are armed, visible and ready to protect the public, then I feel safe, regardless of the actual threat level.
DENTROBATE54
Banned
I agree. Their presence just puts you more at ease, especially in crowded situations where anyone could just pounce on you then disappear among other passers-by.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
That's not how it happens. Is Israel you can clearly see (usually) those that are likely to be the threat (Muslims), and those that are not (Jews). If a Muslim pounces on you in Israel, he's not going to escape into the crowds because he's either already blown himself up, or been gunned down by the 50 armed Israelis around you.
Not that I advocate a red-neck gun-totting arming of civilians, I imagine Jeremiah Valentine, Tyshaun Barnett, Louis Woodcock and their four pals would have given their Boxing Day shoot out a second thought had they been in Tel Aviv, with armed police on every corner, and Jane Creba would still be alive.
Observer Walt
Senior Member
Toronto is a very safe city, but perception does trump reality. Incidents like Jane Creba, and the man who was shot recently at Yonge and Bloor outside the Brass Rail as he just happened to be walking by, etc., really resonate, probably beyond their real significance, as these people were doing nothing wrong.
It may be wrong to say it, but there is much more sympathy, and outrage, over these incidents than there is when someone is shot in a parking lot at Jane and Driftwood at 1 am., or in the so-called "after hours" clubs, where it's a reasonable guess that the people present are the gangbangers and the wannabes.
It may be wrong to say it, but there is much more sympathy, and outrage, over these incidents than there is when someone is shot in a parking lot at Jane and Driftwood at 1 am., or in the so-called "after hours" clubs, where it's a reasonable guess that the people present are the gangbangers and the wannabes.
theman23
Active Member
And what if you had the misfortune of looking like one of the bad guys? Make any sudden movements or slip in a puddle and boom, you're dead. Would you still feel safe then? For every Jane Creba saved, we'd have have a dead Jean Charles de Menezes.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
That's your tough luck unfortunately.
theman23
Active Member
You could say the same for Jane Creba.
DENTROBATE54
Banned
See who as threats? That anaolgy perpetuates racism and xenophobia. Every possible Muslim in a crowded area isn't strapped to the hilt with TNT. A majority are certainly average everyday citizens trying to buy goods for their families. Also that formulates a false sense of security, as someone thinking their similar-looking citizens pose little or no threat could be traitors/un-partriots just as capable of bombngs/shootings than anyone else. Remember John Walker from California who went to Afghanistan to train with Al Qaeda?
The Boxing Day Shooting was tragic and totally unexpected. It's ironic they'd just open fire like that on the bustling, surveillenced CCTV Yonge St Strip. It had to be a spur of the moment thing where they didn't care whether they'd be caught by the cops. I just relieved the city much safer to walk around in now, thanks to the rapid crime cleanup that this unfortunate incident instigated.
Yes the bias of the media is very obvious. I remember the story of a slain black teen who died attending the funeral of his friend who was also gunned down. In no way was this sensationalized to the point of Jane Creba whose name I can remember but not those of the two black kids. Gone and forgotten. It's almost as if to say these people deserve it, because they 'choose' to live in areas frequenced by crime.
Racial profiling is the worst. Every minority kid dressed like a 'thug' is automatically preceived a criminal or heading there. These 'wrong place at the wrong time' scenarios are equally applicable to minorities as too often you'll of "him, that black guy did it!" when ploice question eye-witnesses.