Toronto Rogers Centre Renovations | ?m | ?s | Toronto Blue Jays | Populous

[T.E.C.II]

This is not true.

In both 2016 and 2017 the Jays led the AL in attendance.

Nobody is saying the Blue Jays can't draw fans. They obviously can. But they made the playoffs in 2015 and 2016, so naturally attendance would be high, particularly as it had been over 20 years since they had a playoff appearance, and that would have carried over into the 2017 season (in which they would have finished behind the Yankees in terms of AL attendance). In the years since (pre covid), attendance then dropped. While we're never the outright worst draw, on some nights, the attendance is noticeably sparse.

This is all besides the point, however. The issue is, the stadium is in serious need of upgrading to stay current. Some of these upgrades might be cost prohibitive. The general opinion seems to be from Rogers that the stadium upgrades are expensive to the point of almost being what they would spend on a new stadium.

 

[Riseth]

If we can get something better and more iconic than Rogers Centre than I'd be more ok with a demolition. Otherwise it's one of our most unique and iconic landmarks and I'd be disappointed to see it go. Owners should find other ways to make use of it without a total demolition.

Speaking of demolition, it's gonna be quite a feat for them to jackhammer away all that concrete and steel as using explosives in this part of the city is a no-go.

 

[animatronic]

I’m not sure what the Rogers Centre can used for other then baseball. It is too small for an NFL. Stadium (about 10,000 seats) plus u would have to add all the new amenities NFL stadium have now, also the Rogers Centre is to big for anything else for it too make enough money to keep the lights on. One of the things that I can see is a total renovation of Rogers (every inch of it plus adding more footprint to Rogers you put in a NFL team then u move Toronto FC (similar what u have in Atlanta and Seattle) by doing this you get an immediate 45 plus events and unlike football and baseball the dimensions of soccer and football are better fitted if done properly. BMO is a really nice stadium but one issue it is not under full control by MLSE, as a Toronto FC I have hoped that MLSE would buy BMO Field from the city I’m not sure if that is even possible.

Skydome has about the same circumference as the Superdome, so it could be renovated to hold another 10k seats. They’d “just” have to drop the field and add seats right up to the smaller NFL field. You could also convert the hotel to seats.

tailgating would be out of the question, but the plaza could be significantly overhauled.

That said, there’s no way we’re getting an NFL team, nor should we try to get one.

 

[C-mac]

If we can get something better and more iconic than Rogers Centre than I'd be more ok with a demolition. Otherwise it's one of our most unique and iconic landmarks and I'd be disappointed to see it go. Owners should find other ways to make use of it without a total demolition.

Speaking of demolition, it's gonna be quite a feat for them to jackhammer away all that concrete and steel as using explosives in this part of the city is a no-go.

Iconic??? It's iconic alright, in a terrible way. This thing that looks like an egg in the middle of our skyline.

 

[C-mac]

Nobody is saying the Blue Jays can't draw fans. They obviously can. But they made the playoffs in 2015 and 2016, so naturally attendance would be high, particularly as it had been over 20 years since they had a playoff appearance, and that would have carried over into the 2017 season (in which they would have finished behind the Yankees in terms of AL attendance). In the years since (pre covid), attendance then dropped. While we're never the outright worst draw, on some nights, the attendance is noticeably sparse.

This is all besides the point, however. The issue is, the stadium is in serious need of upgrading to stay current. Some of these upgrades might be cost prohibitive. The general opinion seems to be from Rogers that the stadium upgrades are expensive to the point of almost being what they would spend on a new stadium.

yeah and I'm not sure which part they're not getting about players not liking it either. Nor do people from other cities want to come here to see our stadium. Some will come here to watch their team play, but they don't come to say "I have to check out the Rogers Centre". People do say that about many other stadiums. They basically travel to check out the stadium, not just to see their team.

 

[Richard White]

Why not?

Because as I said, the MLB has standards for their stadiums. The Rogers Centre is a cookie cutter 1980s stadium that was designed to be used for a variety of purposes including concerts, football and monster trucks.

Now that same stadium is outdated, the roof needs substantial upkeep, there is no ability to put real grass in without major work and the amenities are outdated. The sightlines are horrible at times, the outfield is massive and many players simply do not like playing at Rogers Centre.

There are very few stadiums built in the 1980s that still exist and for good reason. I can see MLB "suggesting" that a new stadium is needed.

 

[sixrings]

Because as I said, the MLB has standards for their stadiums. The Rogers Centre is a cookie cutter 1980s stadium that was designed to be used for a variety of purposes including concerts, football and monster trucks.

Now that same stadium is outdated, the roof needs substantial upkeep, there is no ability to put real grass in without major work and the amenities are outdated. The sightlines are horrible at times, the outfield is massive and many players simply do not like playing at Rogers Centre.

There are very few stadiums built in the 1980s that still exist and for good reason. I can see MLB "suggesting" that a new stadium is needed.

And what exactly happens if said suggestion is ignored?

 

[Richard White]

And what exactly happens if said suggestion is ignored?

The MLB gives the team an ultimatum like they did in Oakland when the lease expired.

Honestly, the MLB has alot of sway when it comes to where the teams play. If the stadium is not up to standards as put forth by the league they can make life difficult for the team up to and including forced sales (that is what happened in Oakland).

There is a need for modern media facilities, player facilities, etc etc. The stadium may be able to last 100 years but the facilities therein do not.

Just because you have a stadium does not mean you can play there. There is a reason they had to upgrade Sahlen Field in Buffalo.

 

[C-mac]

The MLB gives the team an ultimatum like they did in Oakland when the lease expired.

Honestly, the MLB has alot of sway when it comes to where the teams play. If the stadium is not up to standards as put forth by the league they can make life difficult for the team up to and including forced sales (that is what happened in Oakland).

There is a need for modern media facilities, player facilities, etc etc. The stadium may be able to last 100 years but the facilities therein do not.

Just because you have a stadium does not mean you can play there. There is a reason they had to upgrade Sahlen Field in Buffalo.

yeah I'm really not sure what they're not getting about this. Maybe they're not huge baseball fans....I'm not sure, and quite frankly, I'm not sure why they care if the stadium is being built on private money.

 

[G.L.17]

And what exactly happens if said suggestion is ignored?

Free agents would continue to refuse to sign in Toronto, star players previously under team control decide to opt out as they would prefer to play in ballparks with the latest amenities (not to mention real grass which makes zero sense to install at the dome from a feasibility standpoint), and in addition to being the only Canadian team (in a province where players are heavily taxed and a lot of players don't want to be in Canada), the Blue Jays organization understands that this is a business, and in order to be competitive, they have to catch up with the times - it worked when the dome first opened to the amazement of a lot of players, but that is in the rear view mirror.

The dome is a fine building on an engineering standpoint. Woo. Doesn't mean it works for baseball in 2021 (yet alone the mid 90s). Any retrofit would still require such significant investments that it makes more sense to start fresh. We know grass won't work because of drainage and lack of natural sunlight on non game days, and blowing out the outfield onto the street would be quite challenging when there's an 11,000 ton roof above it.

Basically it restricts the organization's potential from being competitive on the field.

I highly recommend the book "Ballpark - Baseball in the American City" by Paul Goldenberg. An excellent read on how ballparks were - parks in the midst of a city's urban fabric, with the ballparks' dimensions being a result of the land constraints they dealt with.

 

[christiesplits]

If we are to replace Rogers Centre, we could end up with a stadium just as soulless as the current one.

A lot of the newer MLB ball parks with retractable roofs don't exactly exude old-time baseball:

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[Richard White]

If we are to replace Rogers Centre, we could end up with a stadium just as soulless as the current one.

A lot of the newer MLB ball parks with retractable roofs don't exactly exude old-time baseball:

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Hmm..

What about a glass roof then? It lets in natural light.

 

[C-mac]

If we are to replace Rogers Centre, we could end up with a stadium just as soulless as the current one.

A lot of the newer MLB ball parks with retractable roofs don't exactly exude old-time baseball:

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Those are all still superior to the Rogers Centre, and those are probably the worst 3 of the new stadiums, so that tells you how crap the Rogers Centre is.

 

[G.L.17]

If we are to replace Rogers Centre, we could end up with a stadium just as soulless as the current one.

A lot of the newer MLB ball parks with retractable roofs don't exactly exude old-time baseball:

Shapiro and those behind the scenes have been adamant in a ballpark that would reconnect with the City, with a much more intimate feel. Seeing the work Shapiro and his team have done in Cleveland gives me confidence for Toronto.

Remember that Texas is built out in the burbs, Miami isn't exactly downtown, and while Phoenix is in downtown, the team has explored options for a newer, intimate ballpark with a retractable roof, though this is probably years away.

 

[Translude15]

Those are all still superior to the Rogers Centre, and those are probably the worst 3 of the new stadiums, so that tells you how crap the Rogers Centre is.

RC isn't perfect but considering all the upgrades that have occurred over the last 10 years and those that are ongoing, I wouldn't consider Globe Life, Marlins Park or Chase Field as superior. I honestly wouldn't. Globe Life is MLB's newest venue but it's been trashed by fans and critics alike as a dumpy, Costco ballpark. Add in its suburban location and complete lack of vibrancy then no, it is not superior. Oh, this place also uses artificial turf.

Texas Rangers’ new stadium is complete, but Twitter users aren’t pleased

Globe Life Field is officially ready to house the Texas Rangers, but many fans are taking to Twitter, claiming they are unhappy with the final results.

www.ksat.com

Marlins Park or whatever it's called now is a soulless boondoggle. Oh and guess who just converted their grass playing surface to turf? The Marlins!

Chase Field is equally as large and empty as Rogers is and its amenities harken back to the 90's. A hot tub in CF? Oh goodness gracious, what a superior ballpark! FYI, Chase Field also abandoned real grass and replaced it with (drumroll please) AstroTurf!

Shapiro and those behind the scenes have been adamant in a ballpark that would reconnect with the City, with a much more intimate feel. Seeing the work Shapiro and his team have done in Cleveland gives me confidence for Toronto.

Remember that Texas is built out in the burbs, Miami isn't exactly downtown, and while Phoenix is in downtown, the team has explored options for a newer, intimate ballpark with a retractable roof, though this is probably years away.

A happy medium between extensive retrofitting and full on demolition is probably best. I've read the hotel was tacked on last minute to original construction plans and added like $100MM to the overall cost. Time to remove it and whichever land developer wants to get involved in the project can create a new hotel to house the existing Marriott. I'm hopeful an extensive retrofit can do the job similar to what was done with BC Place in Vancouver. That place was a heck of a lot more sterile and depressing than the Dome, I can tell you that much.