Toronto Rogers Centre Renovations | ?m | ?s | Toronto Blue Jays | Populous

[TOareaFan]

It's fun to dream and think big, though. No one's really come close to suggesting any of the more far-out fantasy plans are actually being seriously considered.

One note on the hotel: even though it looks somewhat superficially tacked onto the facade, it's in reality a lot "thicker" than it appears from those overhead shots -- there are dozens of rooms *in* in the stadium that actually have views of the field of play.

70 of the 340 rooms have field view....so ~20% of the rooms can command a premium price on ~81`days of the year....contributes to REVPAR which contributes to value.

 

[Translude15]

Don't forget parts of the hotel make up the supporting wall at the back of the stadium which is also the deepest part of it the footing for it were actually drilled deeper into bedrock then the rest of the stadium because of the weight it has to maintain at that end. It's the only section that has to hold the whole weight of the roof at one time. When it's close the weight is spread out evenly across the building but when it's open 100% of it's weight is on the north end. Unless you want to have an insane amount of structural steel put in place to compensate for the lost concrete at that end just to give a view of noting in particular.

^All this is true, and it's clearly visible if one takes the GO Train/VIA to enter Union from the west end. It would require an insane amount of engineering and creativity to do any structural adjustments without disrupting critical rail service.

I believe those footings you see from the rail corridor might have more to do with supporting the retaining wall more than the actual roof structure of the Dome itself. Marlins Park has a similar roof design and its roof literally rests on the rail beams. It appears the Renaissance Hotel sits underneath the roof structure as opposed to physically supporting its weight.

In terms of renovating the north end of the Dome, Orlando's Camping Life Stadium underwent extensive renovations of its own lower bowl seating leaving the upper deck intact entirely. Something similar could probably be done to open up the north facade of the Dome.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

The Renaissance Hotel is pretty self contained. It almost looks like it was added as an after thought. Demolishing it would open up the stadium to the city beyond. The upcoming towers clustering around along Peter from Front to King would be visible in the outfield as would Frank Gehry's Mirvish towers. Those sitting in the outfield seats would have a near unobstructed view of the CN Tower off to their left.

Hotel building cost and sold price:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Centre

It was sort of a late addon (see quote above). Now if I have to imagine, I'd build the deck, tear down the hotel and use the lower level of that space as a new "prime entrance" for the stadium (the upper level can still serve hotel purposes) - esp. if coordinated with the development of the RBC site to "open it up" along axis. The open space created by the deck can allow for a quid-pro-quo exchange of Bobbie Rosenfeld Park as a development site, which can be tied in with the lacklustre south facade of Rogers Centre and will also have an added bonus of reinforcing the street wall of Bremner along that stretch.

AoD

I thought the hotel had been discussed previously and it was determined/decided that, although it was a bolt on project, it was far to intertwined with the support structure of the stadium to be able to remove it.

Anyone who's stayed at the hotel would be able to see the support columns.

I think the best bet is to simply integrate the hotel space INTO the stadium thus expanding the concourses at the North end (which are terribly tiny btw).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I thought the hotel had been discussed previously and it was determined/decided that, although it was a bolt on project, it was far to intertwined with the support structure of the stadium to be able to remove it.

Anyone who's stayed at the hotel would be able to see the support columns.

I think the best bet is to simply integrate the hotel space INTO the stadium thus expanding the concourses at the North end (which are terribly tiny btw).

Haven't seen the plans (tried and failed to find them online) but a partial opening maybe possible - you'd be getting rid of the floors, not all columns and beams (and some of those can be replaced by trusses).

AoD

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I believe those footings you see from the rail corridor might have more to do with supporting the retaining wall more than the actual roof structure of the Dome itself. Marlins Park has a similar roof design and its roof literally rests on the rail beams. It appears the Renaissance Hotel sits underneath the roof structure as opposed to physically supporting its weight.

In terms of renovating the north end of the Dome, Orlando's Camping Life Stadium underwent extensive renovations of its own lower bowl seating leaving the upper deck intact entirely. Something similar could probably be done to open up the north facade of the Dome.

so you have an engineering degree in structural engineering just because you can find photos on the internet? I'll admit I don't have one but I will say it's not as easy as it looks to completely redesign a stadium and I don't think Rogers want to move the Jays out of the stadium well they rebuild it from the ground up.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Haven't seen the plans (tried and failed to find them online) but a partial opening maybe possible - you'd be getting rid of the floors, not all columns and beams (and some of those can be replaced by trusses).

AoD

you should be able to find them in the city of toronto archives.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

For comparison the Rogers Centre roof weighs 11000 tons while the Miami park roof weighs 8000 tons. I think it's also important to note that the Marlins park is not climate controlled like the Rogers Centre, their roof is more of a canopy to keep out the rain and glaring sun. While the Rogers centre is completely climate controlled.

 

[Translude15]

so you have an engineering degree in structural engineering just because you can find photos on the internet? I'll admit I don't have one but I will say it's not as easy as it looks to completely redesign a stadium and I don't think Rogers want to move the Jays out of the stadium well they rebuild it from the ground up.

I don't have an engineering degree nor was I claiming I did. Yes, RC and Marlins Park are two different structures but there are similarities in how the retracted roof structures are supported and that is from the rail systems both stadiums use.

Without actually removing the entire hotel itself, it may be feasible to leave the support beams intact while retrofitting the interior to "open up" the north end of the Dome to more natural light as others have suggested.

For comparison the Rogers Centre roof weighs 11000 tons while the Miami park roof weighs 8000 tons. I think it's also important to note that the Marlins park is not climate controlled like the Rogers Centre, their roof is more of a canopy to keep out the rain and glaring sun. While the Rogers centre is completely climate controlled.

Yeah that's the unfortunate difference between the RC and other retractable roof stadiums. I don't know how easily the Dome could be converted to open air but I'd imagine it would be extremely costly.

 

[jcam]

Here's what it would look like if you just added glazing...still a lot of structure in there.

 

[animatronic]

They could bring the seats into a more familiar triangular enclosure around the ballpark and provide greater space around the outer edges of the stadium with the adjustment of seats closer to the field.

Rotating the diamond would allow for an asymmetric look despite the stadium's round exterior. The preferred park orientation is ENE, which would put the hotel in left field and open up some opportunities to vary the foul lines.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/stadium/ballpark_NSEW_AL.shtml (note that the SkyDome diagram is wrong - it's aligned with the street grid which is NNW, not N.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Rotating the diamond would allow for an asymmetric look despite the stadium's round exterior. The preferred park orientation is ENE, which would put the hotel in left field and open up some opportunities to vary the foul lines.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/stadium/ballpark_NSEW_AL.shtml (note that the SkyDome diagram is wrong - it's aligned with the street grid which is NNW, not N.

That would require digging new cutouts for the mound and dirt infield. Nothing wrong with the current setup. You can vary the walls in the current config as well.

 

[Momin]

Update:
Two-Year, $10M Retrofit of Rogers Centre Roof Completed

 

[animatronic]

That would require digging new cutouts for the mound and dirt infield. Nothing wrong with the current setup. You can vary the walls in the current config as well.

That'll be nothing compared to what's going to change. I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to lower the field a few feet in order to improve sight lines. Surely a lower bowl replacement is in the cards, as they need to fix the seat angles in a fixed config. They've budgeted $100-200M for renos over the next few years so lots wil lchange.

And yes can vary the lines now if they wanted to, but moving the hotel off centre opens up lots of neat opportunities in the outfield like stacked bullpens, "patio" sections etc... that would be clunky under current arrangement.

 

[gweed123]

That'll be nothing compared to what's going to change. I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to lower the field a few feet in order to improve sight lines. Surely a lower bowl replacement is in the cards, as they need to fix the seat angles in a fixed config. They've budgeted $100-200M for renos over the next few years so lots wil lchange.

And yes can vary the lines now if they wanted to, but moving the hotel off centre opens up lots of neat opportunities in the outfield like stacked bullpens, "patio" sections etc... that would be clunky under current arrangement.

Indeed. A lower bowl replacement would be the easiest major structural change to make, since the vast majority of it is on tracks anyway. I'd like to see the more traditional L-shape for the lower level. Since the concourse itself would still be basically round, midway between home plate and the foul poles in both LF and RF you'd wind up with a 'plaza-like' area at the top of the lower bowl. Those would be great as two premium versions of the CF Flight Deck (a beer garden, basically).

The 500s would be difficult to modify, as it's part of the permanent structure. Unless some interesting engineering solutions are proposed.

As for the hotel, my preference would be to convert the field-facing rooms into suites. Not much better, but at least they'd be open to the stadium instead of behind a window. You can either keep the 400 level suites or wall that whole section off and extend the 500 level downwards in front of it. If you shaped that in the same L pattern, you'd have another plaza area at the bottom of today's 500 level.

 

[animatronic]

Indeed. A lower bowl replacement would be the easiest major structural change to make, since the vast majority of it is on tracks anyway. I'd like to see the more traditional L-shape for the lower level. Since the concourse itself would still be basically round, midway between home plate and the foul poles in both LF and RF you'd wind up with a 'plaza-like' area at the top of the lower bowl. Those would be great as two premium versions of the CF Flight Deck (a beer garden, basically).

The 500s would be difficult to modify, as it's part of the permanent structure. Unless some interesting engineering solutions are proposed.

As for the hotel, my preference would be to convert the field-facing rooms into suites. Not much better, but at least they'd be open to the stadium instead of behind a window. You can either keep the 400 level suites or wall that whole section off and extend the 500 level downwards in front of it. If you shaped that in the same L pattern, you'd have another plaza area at the bottom of today's 500 level.

You gotta figure the 500 level is a non-starter reno-wise. At most they could reduce the seat count and install wider seats, or permanently remove some sections next to the hotel.

The problem with suites is that they have too many right now - and the current ones are too small / not enough luxury options. Look for them to cut the number in half by doubling the size, and adding more "premium" suites. Under the current config it would be impractical to turn the 300s or 400s into club seats so they are pretty much stuck with the current arrangement. Maybe convert some to restaurants? Can't see them wanting to convert the hotel to suites when they are already suite-heavy.