Toronto Ripley's Aquarium of Canada | 13.11m | 2s | Ripley Entertainment | B+H

[Tewder]

An aquarium in Burlington is a non-starter.

Burlington might have its charms, but tourists want to be able to walk out of their hotel and be able to easily reach all of their amenities. If tourists are going to sit on a bus/train/car for an hour plus, it has to be for a major tourism draw. An aquarium is not enough, especially on its own (yes, RBG). Also, putting an aquarium in Burlington presupposes that tourists would want to hit the Falls and the aquarium in one day. If it takes more than one day, they need to find another hotel at one of the end points. This would mean that they are lugging luggage with them... Would you want to stop halfway to see fish? If they are driving, then they will have to consider traffic as well.

Way too many drawbacks.

LOL, well i'm not really all that into 'fish' myself, however...

In fact, the Burlington Go Station is not that far from the dowtown/Lakeshore, and I'm sure that a transit link would be provided to connect it to the Burlington Waterfront, given that we are talking about a substantial tourist site here. A bus exists already and so it would probably just mean an increased level of service or an upgrade of the transit mode.

As for travelling by car and stopping off on the way, I've brought many a visitor to the Falls in my time and often will stop at Dundurn or NOTL or a winery en route, even if just on a day trip. Again, I am also making an assumption that this would be a major tourist site, given the location.

 

[jn_12]

The majority of'tourists' travelling between Toronto and the Falls are from the GTA itself, no? So yes, I think that many would incorporate a stop at a Burlington/Hamilton aquarium as part of a family vacation, or would make it a day trip on its own.

As for foreign visitors it all depends on how the aquarium is promoted and how significant a site it is, as to whether they would seek it out in significant numbers. Bus tours might add it into their itinerary or offer it as an option, and it could be promoted in tourist marketing in tandem with Toronto/Niagara Falls sites. Besides, in this day of google it could be easily arranged that a cursery search of Toronto would yield a Burlington/Hamilton aquarium result. Unlike many other tourist-friendly sites in the GTA (Wonderland, Black Creek, etc) Burlington is easily accessible from Union Station on the Go Train line... and here in 40 minutes!

The idea for Hamilton/Burlington, however, would be to promote the area to GTAers and southwestern Ontario as a solid day-trip or weekend destination in tandem with the RBG, Dundurn Castle and a potential Robert Bateman museum.

Growing Hamilton/Burlington as a destination is definitely a good thing so I agree that an aquarium would help do that but I have a couple concerns. First, my concern is simply from a business standpoint whereby a location in downtown Toronto beside the Tower is going to always be a lot more likely to succeed than taking a chance that people travelling between NF and Toronto will stop to visit, or hoping that Burlington/Hamilton ever becomes that day-trip destination. I agree that the GTA is an important market with the growth of staycations, but I don't see what Burlington can offer that Toronto can't unless people just want to avoid the city for some reason. The other concern is that this aquarium wouldn't help Burlington unless people stayed a night in Burlington. The absolute worst kind of tourists for a destination are the day-trippers. Over-night stays are the gravy of the tourism sector and day-trippers can often do more harm than good. Burlington/Hamilton would need to ensure that its tourism infrastructure is in place to make the area a viable destination for people (somewhat in the same way Bilbao did) before it would have any sort of positive impact. However, I have to say that I worked on a tourism strategy for Oakville and would love to see that area succeed because it has some great assets that are pretty much invisible right now, and the more depth we have in our product the better it is.

Now, with that in mind, the other major impediment is one that seemingly should be easy to solve but has been very difficult to overcome: establishing partnerships between the various tourism agencies. Hopefully the new tourism regions will help, but along the QEW you're talking about 3 different tourism regions, and Toronto and Niagara are going to dominate any discussion. For Hamilton/Burlington, they're going to have to figure out a way to make it worthwhile for Toronto and Niagara to work with them and promote their region too. It will take a lot of work simply because people in tourism in this province are very defensive about their product. It's a tough economic landscape right now for tourism in Ontario and while developing fringe destinations is integral, it's selling that idea that will be tough to do.

If the aquarium was publically funded then maybe I would be okay with it being in Burlington, though the risk would still be very large and it could be a huge boondoggle. Seeing as how this is a private venture, I'd like to see it succeed and can only imagine that happening in downtown Toronto.

 

[Automation Gallery]

If the aquarium was publically funded then maybe I would be okay with it being in Burlington, though the risk would still be very large and it could be a huge boondoggle. Seeing as how this is a private venture, I'd like to see it succeed and can only imagine that happening in downtown Toronto.

Well said

 

[Tewder]

Growing Hamilton/Burlington as a destination is definitely a good thing so I agree that an aquarium would help do that but I have a couple concerns. First, my concern is simply from a business standpoint whereby a location in downtown Toronto beside the Tower is going to always be a lot more likely to succeed than taking a chance that people travelling between NF and Toronto will stop to visit, or hoping that Burlington/Hamilton ever becomes that day-trip destination. I agree that the GTA is an important market with the growth of staycations, but I don't see what Burlington can offer that Toronto can't unless people just want to avoid the city for some reason. The other concern is that this aquarium wouldn't help Burlington unless people stayed a night in Burlington. The absolute worst kind of tourists for a destination are the day-trippers. Over-night stays are the gravy of the tourism sector and day-trippers can often do more harm than good. Burlington/Hamilton would need to ensure that its tourism infrastructure is in place to make the area a viable destination for people (somewhat in the same way Bilbao did) before it would have any sort of positive impact. However, I have to say that I worked on a tourism strategy for Oakville and would love to see that area succeed because it has some great assets that are pretty much invisible right now, and the more depth we have in our product the better it is.

Now, with that in mind, the other major impediment is one that seemingly should be easy to solve but has been very difficult to overcome: establishing partnerships between the various tourism agencies. Hopefully the new tourism regions will help, but along the QEW you're talking about 3 different tourism regions, and Toronto and Niagara are going to dominate any discussion. For Hamilton/Burlington, they're going to have to figure out a way to make it worthwhile for Toronto and Niagara to work with them and promote their region too. It will take a lot of work simply because people in tourism in this province are very defensive about their product. It's a tough economic landscape right now for tourism in Ontario and while developing fringe destinations is integral, it's selling that idea that will be tough to do.

If the aquarium was publically funded then maybe I would be okay with it being in Burlington, though the risk would still be very large and it could be a huge boondoggle. Seeing as how this is a private venture, I'd like to see it succeed and can only imagine that happening in downtown Toronto.

Good points all, jn.

What the Burlington/Hamilton proposal offers is the location. The land spit that connects the Burlington beach to the Hamilton Beach is quite spectacular and very unique in the region. It has probably just about the most dramatic setting along lake Ontario (with the escarpment coming relatively close to the water) and forms a gateway to the Niagara region in one direction and to the GTA in the other. A major tourist attraction here would have an enormously high profile, given a dare-I-say Sidney Opera House-type landmark design.

I also wonder to what degree an aquarium in Toronto, especially a mediocre one in some ways, could get lost among all the other 'attractions' on offer in the big city? If Toronto were a bigger draw in the family-vacation tourist market I could see it doing well regardless but this doesn't seem to be the case. Niagara is the big draw as far as this goes (at least as far as I would guess) and I can't help but feel that a major aquarium en route has the potential to be a big draw for all types of visitors (GTA/foreign, mass transit/car, over night/day trip).

I could be wrong about this as I'm not an expert in this area but I do know that the land has been set aside for some sort of a major tourist attraction so somebody in the region must be thinking along similar lines.

 

[alklay]

The idea that this attraction would get more visitors if it was in Burlington as opposed to Toronto, is simply absurd.

 

[jn_12]

Good points all, jn.

What the Burlington/Hamilton proposal offers is the location. The land spit that connects the Burlington beach to the Hamilton Beach is quite spectacular and very unique in the region. It has probably just about the most dramatic setting along lake Ontario (with the escarpment coming relatively close to the water) and forms a gateway to the Niagara region in one direction and to the GTA in the other. A major tourist attraction here would have an enormously high profile, given a dare-I-say Sidney Opera House-type landmark design.

I also wonder to what degree an aquarium in Toronto, especially a mediocre one in some ways, could get lost among all the other 'attractions' on offer in the big city? If Toronto were a bigger draw in the family-vacation tourist market I could see it doing well regardless but this doesn't seem to be the case. Niagara is the big draw as far as this goes (at least as far as I would guess) and I can't help but feel that a major aquarium en route has the potential to be a big draw for all types of visitors (GTA/foreign, mass transit/car, over night/day trip).

I could be wrong about this as I'm not an expert in this area but I do know that the land has been set aside for some sort of a major tourist attraction so somebody in the region must be thinking along similar lines.

I agree that the location is awesome in Burlington, but I still have my reservations. One thought I had was how many people that visit Paris also make it out to Versailles? I don't know the answer to that, but Versailles is pretty amazing and I'd bet it only gets a fraction of Paris' visitors.

As for an aquarium getting lost in Toronto, I would disagree. Size-wise this aquarium is going to be pretty big (twice the size of Boston's). I can't say I've ever been to another aquarium than Boston's but we enjoyed ourselves there. And what makes for a bad aquarium anyways? Lack of diversity? bad layout? small tanks? I don't think we've had any sort of indication that this aquarium would be mediocre other than people's thoughts on the Ripley brand. Given the prominence of the site, and a significant jump in the size of the market that this one would serve compared to Ripley's other aquariums, I can't imagine they would assume that a mediocre aquarium would work well here. If anything, I think Ripley's might want this to be a launching point to show they're serious. I might be wrong, who knows. we'll just have to wait and see. But I'd also say that a poor aquarium in downtown Toronto probably does a lot better than a poor aquarium in Burlington.

I don't think you can ever have too many things for tourists to do and if people have the aquarium on their must-see list, it might mean they spend an extra night to fit it in. I know in my own travels I've had that happen to me. Not that we're London, but the first time we went there in 2006, we stayed there for 5 days and found that we didn't see everything we wanted to see, so two years later when we went back to Europe we spent another 3 days there to see the things we missed. I just think of the major tourist cities in the world and they all have something in common: there's never a shortage of things to do.

 

[Tewder]

The idea that this attraction would get more visitors if it was in Burlington as opposed to Toronto, is simply absurd.

'Ambitious' perhaps but 'absurd'? really?


- Almost one million people in the Oakville/Burlington/Hamilton area alone.
- Within 40 minutes of Toronto by commuter train or highway.
- Within an hour's drive amost anywhere in the GTA and Kitchener/Cambridge/Waterloo regions.
- Adjacent to a major node of highways (the QEW/403/407 Junction).
- Midway between Toronto and Niagara Falls which is the nation's number one tourist attraction, which draws 14 to 20 million tourists a year (www.niagarfalls.ca)

Now, 'absurd' because?

 

[Tewder]

I agree that the location is awesome in Burlington, but I still have my reservations. One thought I had was how many people that visit Paris also make it out to Versailles? I don't know the answer to that, but Versailles is pretty amazing and I'd bet it only gets a fraction of Paris' visitors.

I've been to Paris many times and I can tell you that there are always line-ups at Versailles. It is well connected by local train, many of the bus tours offer it as an option, and it's pretty damn famous. Still, I'm sure it gets only a fraction of the visitors to Paris but Paris is a city full of famous sites. This is not the same for Toronto where little beyond the CN Tower has much international recognition. Indeed, Niagara Falls by far has the highest international profile in the area... all of which is only to say that the Paris/Versailles vs Toronto/Niagara Region may not be completely analagous.

 

[Ramako]

'Ambitious' perhaps but 'absurd'? really?


- Almost one million people in the Oakville/Burlington/Hamilton area alone.
- Within 40 minutes of Toronto by commuter train or highway.
- Within an hour's drive amost anywhere in the GTA and Kitchener/Cambridge/Waterloo regions.
- Adjacent to a major node of highways (the QEW/403/407 Junction).
- Midway between Toronto and Niagara Falls which is the nation's number one tourist attraction, which draws 14 to 20 million tourists a year (www.niagarfalls.ca)

Now, 'absurd' because?

Because the vast majority of tourists don't leave the City of Toronto during their visit. As for Torontonians such as myself, I'd likely never drive that far to see an aquarium, but if it were right downtown, I'd attend several times a year. If you put one where you're suggesting, the only regular visitors will be local schools and people on their way to Niagara Falls.

 

[Red October]

As someone who is currently a resident of a "suburb" of Toronto, I personally like taking the GO train into Toronto and being able to do as much as possible without moving much..
For example going to the ROM then hitting up Hemingways in Yorkville, then possibly a Leaf/Jays game that night.
I would also definitely add an aquarium to that list, but if it were in Burlington, having to take 2 trains or splitting it into multiple days/trips would not be desirable, even though I do often go to Spencer Smith Park.

 

[old boy]

I've been to Paris many times and I can tell you that there are always line-ups at Versailles. It is well connected by local train, many of the bus tours offer it as an option, and it's pretty damn famous. Still, I'm sure it gets only a fraction of the visitors to Paris but Paris is a city full of famous sites. This is not the same for Toronto where little beyond the CN Tower has much international recognition. Indeed, Niagara Falls by far has the highest international profile in the area... all of which is only to say that the Paris/Versailles vs Toronto/Niagara Region may not be completely analagous.

Developing the Toronto/Hamilton/Niagara connection helps the entire region in terms of tourism, and international identity, alone. Thinking, and acting, as if these are individual packages is a quaint notion, but doesn't really promote the regional clout that the Western Lake Ontario region could attain at the international level. As a single destination, it is said that Niagara Falls is the number 1 tourist attraction. I'd like to see the province integrate and promote the outstanding attractions in this region as a package. People around the world would naturally associate images of the Falls with images of Toronto, and now we're onto something that could be " world class ".

 

[alklay]

'Ambitious' perhaps but 'absurd'? really?


- Almost one million people in the Oakville/Burlington/Hamilton area alone.
- Within 40 minutes of Toronto by commuter train or highway.
- Within an hour's drive amost anywhere in the GTA and Kitchener/Cambridge/Waterloo regions.
- Adjacent to a major node of highways (the QEW/403/407 Junction).
- Midway between Toronto and Niagara Falls which is the nation's number one tourist attraction, which draws 14 to 20 million tourists a year (www.niagarfalls.ca)

Now, 'absurd' because?

Absurd because not one of the points above provide any evidence that the attraction would garner more visits if it was in Burlington than Toronto.

 

[Tewder]

Architect,

Yes, a lot of people come to Burlington each year to shove ribs down their gullet Apparantly the city isn't that remote or unreachable when it comes to meat... but fish? Maybe if we forget the aquarium and fry up the fish we'd be a bigger draw!

Because the vast majority of tourists don't leave the City of Toronto during their visit. As for Torontonians such as myself, I'd likely never drive that far to see an aquarium, but if it were right downtown, I'd attend several times a year. If you put one where you're suggesting, the only regular visitors will be local schools and people on their way to Niagara Falls.

Again, I think you are defining 'tourist' a little too narrowly... and as has already been said there are about 15 to 20 million people annually who are visiting the Niagara Region, either via Toronto or directly from the USA so the idea that Toronto is the lone tourist magnet in the area is completely erroneous.... but forget the draw of Niagara, people in Toronto travel to Stratford, to Wonderland, Prince Edward County, Cottage Country and all over, believe it or not. Your perception that Burlington is too remote or inaccessible is probably only shared by a minority of urbanites in Toronto.

 

[Tewder]

Absurd because not one of the points above provide any evidence that the attraction would garner more visits if it was in Burlington than Toronto.

What kind of evidence would you like if not potential visitors, ease of access and a potentially more spectacular site/attraction? It is not a given that a location in Toronto will make it a success. Remember the Olympic Spirit Centre? And, in a list of the top travel sites in Ontario there are many outside of Toronto.

 

[Ramako]

What kind of evidence would you like if not potential visitors, ease of access and a potentially more spectacular site/attraction? It is not a given that a location in Toronto will make it a success. Remember the Olympic Spirit Centre? And, in a list of the top travel sites in Ontario there are many outside of Toronto.

An 'Olympic Spirit Centre' would not have been a success anywhere, Toronto or not. Who actually says "Hey, let's go visit the Olympic Spirit Centre!!"? An aquarium is a fun and simple concept with a broad appeal. It would likely be successful anywhere. It's just a matter of where the most people will be.