Toronto Rail Deck Development | 239.43m | 72s | Fengate | Sweeny &Co

(you can also search for PL180211 on the LPAT website)

It's not on the LPAT site yet. They're very inconsistent about that kind of stuff.

Speaking of updates, can anyone tell when the last time was that the City updated their website for RailDeck Park - you know, their iconic, huge, mega-project that's so vitally important to the City's future? Anything since 2017? Was anyone actually working on this thing, you think?

 
this does leave over $400 million

I'm afraid that $400 million is not nearly enough to pay for the park.

Canadian Taxpayers Federation estimated $3.7 billion which is substantially higher than city's estimate of $1.7 billion, which is also way higher than what is in Section 42 funds. Probably the truth is somewhere in between, but still quite expensive!

Maybe other (smaller) portions of the railway could be converted into a park with those funds, which would extend what is being proposed here.

Or maybe, we should just stop charging developers for parks, if we do not have creativity to build them in the core. Who knows, maybe we would be better of if those funds were diverted to affordable housing, or transit/schools/hospitals.

"In May 2020, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation released a study saying that once exclusions from the city's estimates are factored in the park would cost more than $3.7 billion"

https://www.taxpayer.com/media/CTF_Rail_Deck_Park_Costs_Study.pdf
 
If it would cost nearly 4 billion to build a flat park on these tracks - I can't imagine now expensive it would be to build 8 towers all connected with sky bridges and an elevated park with rock/cliff features beside it.
I would love to see their cost-benefit analysis for this project :)
 
I agree with the sentiment, but a significant chunk of Rail Deck Park would have come from Section 42 funds earmarked specifically for parks expansion. They can't be used for other things.

Though, if the private sector is going to pay for the park space here, this does leave over $400 million (I think that was the most recent figure? someone feel free to correct me) of downtown-designated Section 42 funds to invest in park space elsewhere in downtown.

You'd be in the ballpark.

Its a bit more complicated than that because the City has multiple parkland acquisition accounts, some dating back to pre-amalgamation. It could probably use some streamlining....but I digress.

These were the numbers as of last year; including go-forward estimates through 2022.

The final digit is thousands of dollars. ie. the number 1 is not $1; but $1,000 in the account.

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Big Money one:

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But more.....

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There's also some money stashed over here:

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And here:

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Its a in a couple of other spots too.
 
I would love to see their cost-benefit analysis for this project :)

I suspect their cost-benefit (at least in part) is based on extracting $$$ from the City..............

But we shall see.
 
I suspect their cost-benefit (at least in part) is based on extracting $$$ from the City..............

But we shall see.
Looks like all options are on the table at this point.

I agree that this project doesn't seem to be profitable and that raises a lot of questions.

Maybe, after some negotiations, they will cut down on the number of towers, but the city will pay for the part of the park. Who knows...

I just hope that it somehow is profitable as is and that no taxpayer money is involved
 
The way I see it:
- Anything in the red bubble is either buildings, or parkettes that are disconnected from the overall parkland
- Anything in the blue bubble is concrete heavy
- What's left over is a disappointment and a huge wasted opportunity

Sad to hear about this decision. Was hoping this could have been Toronto's Millennium Park.

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The way I see it:
- Anything in the red bubble is either buildings, or parkettes that are disconnected from the overall parkland
- Anything in the blue bubble is concrete heavy
- What's left over is a disappointment and a huge wasted opportunity

Sad to hear about this decision. Was hoping this could have been Toronto's Millennium Park.

View attachment 319111

The decision made by LPAT was pretty expected (to me at least), as the circumstances have changed a lot from when the idea was floated originally. I was very much on the city's side when the first proposal came out, but as years have passed and housing supply still not being built fast enough, I would rather now see the city negotiate with the developer to get as much community benefit as possible.

A few points to make here to this comment:

1. I don't think large grass patches are necessary like you are saying here. As seen in Cityplace they hold up poorly and turn to dirt quickly... it's not something I'd like to picnic on unless well kept. (not to mention the dog urine.) If the areas you circled in blue can turn out something like Berczy park, I think it'd actually be quite nice.

2. A full Rail Deck Park would have nothing interesting fronting it (Not that all parks have to of course, but wanting something "world class" would require its surroundings to enhance the liveliness of the park, as City place is all townhomes on that side, and Front St has inconsistent retail. This plan allows for cafes and interesting retail to front directly onto the park instead of busy roadways, which I see as a win.

3. I'm not gonna make any friends with this last point, but I strongly dislike people's obsession with Millennium Park in Chicago and the desire to emulate it. Having been there, I found it too big and open, with giant parkway style roads cutting it into a bunch of small uninteresting pieces that are so hard to navigate. It has some well designed sections for sure with lush greenery, and it's size is quite something to behold in a downtown; but it doesn't ever feel like a retreat to greenspace. It feels sterile. This current plan at least tries to bring in some unique ideas to the table, and doesn't waste (too much) of its space.

In no way do the plans here look perfect, I have quite a few issues with what is proposed (like the parking lot elevating the park so much and making it hard to access at certain places) but I do appreciate the creative vision here and can pose as a great addition to the community with the right additions like affordable housing and community benefits.

Now we just hope that this will materialize 😅

Other random thoughts... The cliff idea is quite neat, though I do think it wastes some open space. The current plan seems to have a really good amount of tree coverage, that should make things feel cozy and less urban.
 
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Sad to hear about this decision. Was hoping this could have been Toronto's 2050 Millennium Park.

View attachment 319111
With that amount of money the city could move on immediately westward on the Rail Corridor and connect , King West, Fort York, Liberty Village, Exhibition Place, Parkdale, Queen West, etc....its a no brainer
 
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, there’s no way these condos are being built and it’s utterly delusional to think that this is some magical private sector solution that will result in any the advertised public space being built at minimal public cost.

Do people in favour of ORCA honestly think the sale of some 40-storey condos here is going to pay for the entire rail corridor to be decked over and built as a park? If this was going to cost the City $1.7 billion, why would it cost the developer any less, in particular when the engineering will be made significantly more complex by the towers and site servicing needs? The economics for building these condos at market rates simply do not make sense.

There’s a reason ORCA brought in Moshe Safdie and top planners to put together some fancy renderporn that will never be built. It was to convince the LPAT and others that somehow this was a real project, where the actual goal was to rezone the land to increase value. Now that they have been successful (assuming no change), they can either extort the City for more money to purchase the air rights or make a proposal that includes far less parkland and that will still require a large infusion of public funds for far less public space. It’s one of the most cynical scams I’ve ever seen.

And for anybody wondering why the City hasn’t moved on this until now, there were two years-long LPAT appeals by ORCA that needed to be determined before the project could even be accurately scoped or priced. What did you expect?

This. Is. A. Swindle. Get used to looking at the rail lines for another decade.
 
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Does anyone have any STREET LEVEL renders for either plan (Rail-Deck or ORCA) from FRONT STREET or QUEENS WHARF road..?

How high above the tracks is the decking going to need to be to clear the overhead catenary system for GO Electrification..?


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