Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

AoD, do you actually drive on a regular basis? From your comments I get the feeling that you don't actually understand how people drive. Check out the concept of "muscle memory" and understand that most drivers are not actively thinking about the act of driving when they're behind the wheel. You may think it's terrible but good luck changing human behaviour...
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Driving should NOT be an intuition process ever - you have to react to the road as the conditions dictate.

AoD
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That's nice, but it's easier said than done. Even the most attentive drivers will occasionally drive intuitively. It's human nature.

For example, how many of us would notice new or modified turning restrictions on an intersection we've used for years? I know good, safe and accident free drivers who've made illegal turns on an intersection with a new turning restriction for months without realizing what they've been doing. Likewise, remove a stop sign from a regularly traveled routed, and I bet some drivers would still stop at the intersection. After getting used to having the stop sign there, people will no longer look for the sign and intuitively stop. They aren't bad drivers, it's just human nature.

This is the reason why those eye-catching "NEW" signs often have to be installed where there are new driving restrictions.
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
That's nice, but it's easier said than done. Even the most attentive drivers will occasionally drive intuitively. It's human nature.

For example, how many of us would notice new or modified turning restrictions on an intersection we've used for years? I know good, safe and accident free drivers who've made illegal turns on an intersection with a new turning restriction for months without realizing what they've been doing. Likewise, remove a stop sign from a regularly traveled routed, and I bet some drivers would still stop at the intersection. After getting used to having the stop sign there, people will no longer look for the sign and intuitively stop. They aren't bad drivers, it's just human nature.

This is the reason why those eye-catching "NEW" signs often have to be installed where there's new driving restrictions.
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Of course it is human nature, but that's doesn't absolve the responsibility of someone operating a 1 ton+ vehicle - and perhaps the key to safety isn't to make everything predictable, but to make everything the opposite so that caution must be maximized at all times.

DarnDirtyApe said:
AoD, do you actually drive on a regular basis? From your comments I get the feeling that you don't actually understand how people drive. Check out the concept of "muscle memory" and understand that most drivers are not actively thinking about the act of driving when they're behind the wheel. You may think it's terrible but good luck changing human behaviour...
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Nope I don't, then again most people would not hesitate to eek out rolling stops, rush trough yellow lights, etc. because that's "muscle memory". Human nature is no excuse. And I don't have to think that it is terrible - the accident stats spoke volumes.

AoD
 
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DarnDirtyApe said:
AoD, do you actually drive on a regular basis? From your comments I get the feeling that you don't actually understand how people drive. Check out the concept of "muscle memory" and understand that most drivers are not actively thinking about the act of driving when they're behind the wheel. You may think it's terrible but good luck changing human behaviour...
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In fact, I would argue it's critical that much of driving happens at a lower level. Things like breaking and steering to avoid an accident. It's also critical that good behaviours like checking the mirrors are learned early on so they become automatic.
 
Napoleon said:
In fact, I would argue it's critical that much of driving happens at a lower level. Things like breaking and steering to avoid an accident. It's also critical that good behaviours like checking the mirrors are learned early on so they become automatic.
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Reflex is one aspect and it can be beneficial - but when the reflex is of the type I've mentioned (e.g. yellow = accelerate) I think we have a greater problem that need to be unlearned. In this instance, try randomizing the duration for the transition within a max/min. Unpredictability is what breaks it.

Napoleon said:
I agree, but for many driving is a rather intuitive process. I doubt that many of the car-streetcar accidents have been caused by people intentionally running lights. I don't have data, but I would be surprised. Certainly an easy comparison would be Spadina….count red light runners and accidents at an intersection there and compare to Queen's Quay. That will control for intentional idiocy or accidental idiocy :)
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Spadina also had major issues early on that took a year or two to calm down- familiarity is a factor with that one.

AoD
 
DarnDirtyApe said:
AoD, do you actually drive on a regular basis? From your comments I get the feeling that you don't actually understand how people drive. Check out the concept of "muscle memory" and understand that most drivers are not actively thinking about the act of driving when they're behind the wheel. You may think it's terrible but good luck changing human behaviour...
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Generally, I'd agree with you. EG - auto commuters daily trek. They just put their minds on cruise control and take the route they take daily. The point is, that when you see something different - as in QQ. You should slow down and understand what the signals and signs are telling you.

As for muscle memory, I'd think that applies more to brake sensitivity or clutch control on various cars. I've only owned manual cars, but if I have to drive my parents car (automatic) I still push my left foot into a ghost clutch pedal for the first 30 minutes.
 
Then you get situations where there are left turn signals given, but there is nobody turning left at all. Or you have a red signal and there is nobody moving, the cross street is empty of vehicles. You're left wondering why do you have a red light, no streetcars, no pedestrian, no cross street traffic, no left turn vehicles.
 
And we had another collision at Queen's Quay and Simcoe today! Woohoo! TTCnotices timestamps were 5:07 PM for service holding, and 5:44 PM for all clear. Seemed much quicker than in the past.

As usual, driver made an illegal left, running a red light, and got t-boned by a streetcar proceeding legally. Pictures:

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Unfortunately I didn't notice until after taking these, and had thought I'd captured it better, but the gentleman in the final picture standing by the car in the checkered shirt talking on a phone had his left arm wrapped up in a sling.

IMO this is the worst one I've seen, including pictures I've seen posted online here or elsewhere, in terms of the severity of the damage to the car. Looked like a tremendously hard hit.
 

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Auto darwinism at it's finest. If the physical jolt of that accident doesn't teach him a lesson, the financial impact certainly will.

That's a brand new civic he just wrote off, and unless he paid extra for his insurance where they guarantee to replace the full value of another new car, he'll be taking a big hit to the wallet. Nevermind the ticket for running a red, plus insurance will probably cost more after this.

Glad no one was seriously hurt though.
 
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