Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

W. K. Lis said:
Again, would help if they had put green something (grass?) in the streetcar right-of-way. With the bicycle path next to it, emergency vehicles could use the bicycle path, but no the roads department wants to them to use the right-of-way.

The right-of-way is almost the same colour as the roadway. And the legal North American signage is confusing.
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I've said before, but this below would have been a better setup. Less confusing for drivers. No pedestrian spilling over onto the bicycle path. Pedestrians do no need to cross any traffic (including bicycles) if they are getting on an eastbound streetcar.
Too bad that's not the case.

sidewalk
==streetcar stops/planters==
streetcar ROW
==planters==
bicycle path
---curb-----
roadway
 
I still dream that this should be a lesson for the undeveloped parts of Queens Quay East - ban driveways on the south side of the street (or specifically design it so that there's only one or two on the whole street)!
 
They can always get developers on the North side of Queens Quay to provide parking for the development south of Queens Quay, and just connect them with a tunnel under the street (like L Tower and Backstage, or Montage and Luna in CityPlace)
 
11th said:
I've said before, but this below would have been a better setup. Less confusing for drivers. No pedestrian spilling over onto the bicycle path. Pedestrians do no need to cross any traffic (including bicycles) if they are getting on an eastbound streetcar.
Too bad that's not the case.

sidewalk
==streetcar stops/planters==
streetcar ROW
==planters==
bicycle path
---curb-----
roadway
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that mean cyclists have to cross a lane of faster traffic in either direction to get across the road? Wouldn't you want another curb for people getting on a westbound streetcar?

I don't really see what's confusing for drivers in the current setup. Pedestrians spilling over onto the bike track could be addressed by adding a raised curb or just putting the bike track slightly below the footpath.
 
the lemur said:
I don't really see what's confusing for drivers in the current setup. Pedestrians spilling over onto the bike track could be addressed by adding a raised curb or just putting the bike track slightly below the footpath.
Click to expand...

Or simply installing planters between the bike path and sidewalk, with a chain connecting the planters and acting as a barrier.
 
the lemur said:
I don't really see what's confusing for drivers in the current setup.
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This is the only street where drivers, when turning left onto the street, don't go to the far side of the streetcar tracks.

There is a possibility that the surface treatments make it less clear that there isn't a road on the far side of the tracks. In one case, there IS a road on the far side of the tracks, but it's a condo driveway.

I understand why there's confusion. I'm just optimistic that with time and with some tweaks it can be managed.
 
the lemur said:
Wouldn't that mean cyclists have to cross a lane of faster traffic in either direction to get across the road? Wouldn't you want another curb for people getting on a westbound streetcar?

I don't really see what's confusing for drivers in the current setup. Pedestrians spilling over onto the bike track could be addressed by adding a raised curb or just putting the bike track slightly below the footpath.
Click to expand...
I don't quite understand the scenarios you mentioned, but bikes by law are treated as general traffic anyways. They are/should follow the same rules as cars, so grouping the bike path with roadways is a no brainer.
(or maybe you were confusing bike lanes with bike path in my example? )

And I'm not sure why you'd need a curb for westbound streetcar riders. The stops can be built on the planters median between the ROW and bike path.
 
11th said:
I don't quite understand the scenarios you mentioned, but bikes by law are treated as general traffic anyways. They are/should follow the same rules as cars, so grouping the bike path with roadways is a no brainer.
(or maybe you were confusing bike lanes with bike path in my example? )

And I'm not sure why you'd need a curb for westbound streetcar riders. The stops can be built on the planters median between the ROW and bike path.
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Okay, I think I get your planter/median setup.

But just because bikes are traffic too doesn't mean that a bike path - a path separate from the rest of the roadway - should always be grouped with it. Part of the purpose of separating it is to reduce the conflict inherent in 'sharing' the space on the road. Although if it has to be right next to the road it should be separated by a curb and/or a difference in grade, as I suggested for separating bike paths from walkways.
 
I think people will get the hang of it over time. I took this picture in Madrid, and people here seemed to understand the purpose of the lanes, and avoided them. (Note, I was the only moron standing in the bike lane)

11034165_10101000238302941_3813155224398474652_n.jpg


Looking back at this pic, perhaps a few more bicycle symbols painted onto the path would help in our situation.
 

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the lemur said:
Maybe something like this:
https://goo.gl/maps/BQyn2
(there's another bit of roadway to the right of the ROW, but I'm ignoring that here)
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Yeah, there's very little ambiguity as to what's going on in that scenario.

Tuscani01 said:
I think people will get the hang of it over time. I took this picture in Madrid, and people here seemed to understand the purpose of the lanes, and avoided them. (Note, I was the only moron standing in the bike lane)
Looking back at this pic, perhaps a few more bicycle symbols painted onto the path would help in our situation.
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I have to say, Germany is actually often much less obvious than this and yet people stay off the path. Let's just say people often learn the hard way very quickly, and no one has sympathy for a pedestrian "bumped" in the bike path.
 
Napoleon said:
Yeah, there's very little ambiguity as to what's going on in that scenario.


I have to say, Germany is actually often much less obvious than this and yet people stay off the path. Let's just say people often learn the hard way very quickly, and no one has sympathy for a pedestrian "bumped" in the bike path.
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Germany seems to have a lot of sidewalks converted into shared use paths with just a line of paint or different paving, leaving a sliver of sidewalk/curb for cyclists to negotiate their way around trees, poles, pedestrians, etc.

 
I spent about two hours down there today and it is wonderful and a place that I hopefully will spend many days along. A few hickups but nothing serious.
 
ehlow said:
Why can't they just paint the streetcar lanes a solid colour like green or blue, then have a massive green or blue sign that says "NO CARS - streetcars only". If it's just concrete coloured then it's more ambiguous.
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I suspect that is going to happen ... even if they don't know that yet. :)
 
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