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Toronto Public Space Renaissance?

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

How are they hindering anyone's enjoyment?

Well, I personally have not had any trouble with them. I do have some friends who received some rather rude treatment from some residents who felt they were somehow infringing on their land for biking though the residential streets (or it may have been in the area...this has happened more than once).

I'm not saying all Island residents are like this of course, but it's attitudes like this that don't win them any sympathy. If the resident in question isn't willing to share, he should just leave altogether.
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

I'm not saying it's specifically the case here, but maybe it's less a matter of rude residents than of residents having to deal (maybe not in this specific case, but generally) with rude bikers?

Besides, here's the dilemma about "tourism" within living, breathing neighbourhoods: plain residents don't necessarily appreciate being gawked at like zoo animals. (Among other things, it's been a years-long controversy in Oak Park, IL.; all those tourists getting off on a FLW fetish, etc, sparking a degree of NTIMBYism [T for Tourist, natch].)

Ultimately, "respect" goes all ways. Just as it does on city streets among drivers, bikers, walkers...
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

And TBH if anyone knew that urban *ahem* tourism wasn't about gawking and being gawked at, it was Jane Jacobs. That's why she was just a plain Annex resident--and why there were no flowers'n'stuff I noticed at her place this afternoon. (Look, leave well enough alone. This isn't Princess Di we're talking about, y'know; the Annex doesn't need a lurid circus of mourning pilgrims...)
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

I'm not saying it's specifically the case here, but maybe it's less a matter of rude residents than of residents having to deal (maybe not in this specific case, but generally) with rude bikers?

Besides, here's the dilemma about "tourism" within living, breathing neighbourhoods: plain residents don't necessarily appreciate being gawked at like zoo animals. (Among other things, it's been a years-long controversy in Oak Park, IL.; all those tourists getting off on a FLW fetish, etc, sparking a degree of NTIMBYism [T for Tourist, natch].)

Ultimately, "respect" goes all ways. Just as it does on city streets among drivers, bikers, walkers...

Well, it's certainly not the case here. Could it be that the said resident(s) reached a boiling point and just lashed out at my friends, even though they had no good reason to? Perhaps. But their story was not the first I've heard of encounters with rude residents.

To some extent, I can understand Island residents who prefer quiet not taking kindly to people flooding the Island in summer months when they have it in winter almost entirely to themselves. I can also understand residents not wanting to put with rude bikers/visitors. But these are things people in all neighbourhoods have to put up with.

The attitude can be understandable to a certain extent, but that doesn't excuse it.
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

I talked to my co-worker who lives on the islands about tourists. She told me that most islanders have no problem with tourists coming to visit Wards Island. She said what gets island residents mad are the tourists who have no regard for their homes. My co-worker was saying that tourists will often actually walk up the front doors of island resident homes and peak into the windows as if they are in a zoo looking at some weird species of human :) She said that happens alot, and that does not please island residents. Tourists are not always respectfull.
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

I talked to my co-worker who lives on the islands about tourists. She told me that most islanders have no problem with tourists coming to visit Wards Island. She said what gets island residents mad are the tourists who have no regard for their homes. My co-worker was saying that tourists will often actually walk up the front doors of island resident homes and peak into the windows as if they are in a zoo looking at some weird species of human :) She said that happens alot, and that does not please island residents. Tourists are not always respectfull.

Yeah, that's definitely uncalled for and unacceptable.
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Jan,

I absolutely agree with you that visitors to our city are more interested and impressed by our neighborhoods rather then be blinded by our shiny new attractions.

I can assure you that I understand that the Island is well used. From my recent personal experience, when I brought my relatives from the great City of Chicago to the Islands, they couldn’t believe we could go canoeing on the waters. On the day we were visiting, the City of Toronto just so happen to be offering free lessons on the Lake.

Perhaps the word “evict†is too strong for some, however, I’m in favor of phasing out the private homes on the Island community and returning them to public use.

To suggest that my idea goes against Jane Jacob is also unfair. To be fair, I never said we should bulldoze over the Island community.

My initial concept of bed and breakfast places scattered across the Island would be more democratic, providing the possibility for all Ontarian’s to experience living on the Island and not just a select few. Furthermore, these establishments would still need to be run and staffed. There could still be a strong sense of community on the Island with the keepers but they would not be permanent residents as they are now, rather the gatekeepers.

In this case the responsibility of looking after the Island, like maintaining the houses and gardens could be returned to all citizens and not just be left to a few.

My concept is to return all of it over to public use. To eliminate private property, suburban attitudes, and NIMBY complaints. Current Island resident also need to be reminded that the Island is just not theirs and needs to be shared. If that means bearing with noise a few select days a year for special events, that needs to be made clear and maybe included in their sweetheart deal lease agreements.


Shawnmicallef,

Sure my comments are over the top, however that is fueled by over the top comments made by others.

You can also question my “authentic†tourism ideas of Toronto as much as you like.

As a “suburban†resident from Mississauga, I like to think I am equally as passionate about making Toronto better. While I may be a big booster of big special events like Expo and the Olympics, I also believe in creating new CLEAN (free of litter and adverting) in public spaces and on buildings.

I’m strongly opposed to things like Metropolis, the destruction of the Eaton Centre atrium, monster garbage cans, info To Go Booths, the towers on top of the McLaughlin Planetarium and Hummingbird Centre, new subway car designs, the tearing down of the Nathan Philip Square Walk Ways, meaningless government reports sitting on the shelf and token public consultation meetings.

While other may take a passive approach to shaping public policy in Toronto, I dedicate my time, skills and energy to active volunteer time serving on boards and committees, participating in long public consultation processes with “consultants†around boardroom tables, and by engaging, lobbying and challenging elected officials. Nevermind the commute time and cost from Mississauga.

I’m proud of my contribution to the city of Toronto. The most recent proposal I pitched to boring consultants and elected officials was the building of a series of small demonstration housing projects across all of Toronto’s BIAs, which would be used as hostel/hotels for Expo visitors, which in turn boost tourism as visitors experience life in one of our neighborhoods, and later converted to affordable housing units, leaving a lasting legacy from Expo and strengthening our communities. This proposal immediately won praise from consultants, housing advocates and politicians in the room.

I’m not trying to boost that all my ideas are fantastic or right, but to immediately dismiss all my previous thoughts and ideas because one of my suggestions is on the beloved Jane Jacobs list of foolish things hardly seems fair to me.

Louroz
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Um, hate to say it but Torontonians in general are perceived as being pretty rude. Other Canadians think we are dismissive and arrogant, Americans find us cold and insulting, quality service for the most part is non-existant, and the 'tude can be overbearing at times. I suppose we've always been perceived as a little cold and conservative, generally speaking, but somewhere along the way we seem to have lost our core civility and hospitality too.

Aside from a few exceptions (Front East for example) the city is ugly and uninviting. When you're not too busy stepping over the homeless you can't fail to notice how rundown with neglect the place is. I"m not suggesting that every street has to be 5th Avenue or the Champs Elysees, but our major thoroughfares at the very least should be pleasing for Torontonians, if not for tourists!! If not, then we should just shut our mouths about how we're perceived and move on. Blame city council for this neglect though! I've seen much smaller towns and cities than Toronto that do much more by way of urban planning, design and upkeep than we do. Still, maybe we should blame ourselves too for not expecting and demanding more.
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Future> I didn't mean to be so over-the-top myself -- and your ideas/work etc is all fine, and not discredited because you are against the island hippies. Look at what they have done to us here.
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Shawn,

Agreed, we have other more pressing issues that require attention.

Louroz
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

When you're not too busy stepping over the homeless you can't fail to notice how rundown with neglect the place is.

My impression has been that there are significantly fewer homeless on the street in the last couple of years. Others with whom I have discussed this matter have similar impressions. I could be mistaken but I sense that the City is making progress in this regard.
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Um, hate to say it but Torontonians in general are perceived as being pretty rude. Other Canadians think we are dismissive and arrogant, Americans find us cold and insulting, quality service for the most part is non-existant, and the 'tude can be overbearing at times. I suppose we've always been perceived as a little cold and conservative, generally speaking, but somewhere along the way we seem to have lost our core civility and hospitality too.

We are? I hear the exact opposite from a lot of people, as much as I hear the perception that we're rude.

I tend to take the stereotypical Canadian view of Toronto with a grain of salt.

Aside from a few exceptions (Front East for example) the city is ugly and uninviting. When you're not too busy stepping over the homeless you can't fail to notice how rundown with neglect the place is. I"m not suggesting that every street has to be 5th Avenue or the Champs Elysees, but our major thoroughfares at the very least should be pleasing for Torontonians, if not for tourists!! If not, then we should just shut our mouths about how we're perceived and move on. Blame city council for this neglect though! I've seen much smaller towns and cities than Toronto that do much more by way of urban planning, design and upkeep than we do. Still, maybe we should blame ourselves too for not expecting and demanding more.

"Rundown with neglect" is overstating it. Streetscaping, etc. could be much better but the city, generally speaking, is not rundown.
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

As a newcomer to Toronto, i found Toronto very friendly. I'm suspect of anybody who says otherwise...they haven't examined their unsubstantiated beliefs.
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

I can assure you that I understand that the Island is well used. From my recent personal experience, when I brought my relatives from the great City of Chicago to the Islands, they couldn’t believe we could go canoeing on the waters. On the day we were visiting, the City of Toronto just so happen to be offering free lessons on the Lake.

It may be more telling that it was "canoeing in the waters" that resonated most strongly with them. May I ask if
(a) you all went to Wards Island at all,
(b) how Wards would have resonated with your relatives, and
(c) how the, er, "Jane Jacobsness" of Toronto would have resonated with your relatives. (Which might not be too presumptious a question, were they visiting this very week of mourning, so to speak).

Perhaps the lesson in all this is when it comes to tourism for the middlebrow masses who'd go all blank and duh at all this invocation of Jane Jacobs, Toronto might well be an incompetent failure...
 
Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Shawn: Obviously everybody has different experiences. My beliefs are substantiated by my experiences and by those I hear of from others. That said, I am speaking very 'generally' here. I've met many very nice Parisians too.
 

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