Toronto Public Space Renaissance?

[Observer Walt]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

There isn't any chance at all of them being evicted, they have long leases. I didn't think much of Bob Rae's government but I give him full credit for getting it right when the Islands Trust was created and years of disputes were resolved. They saved one of the most charming communities in Toronto, not to mention "affordable housing" which we keep hearing is in short supply. I also think there is a benefit in having "eyes on the street" so to speak, in the big park, with people always there, keeping it safer and liveable.

By the way, their lease payment may have been on the low side, but I wonder if most people know that part of the deal is that the Island residents will never have the opportunity to realize any appreciation on their houses, as most people do. They are not allowed to list them for sale in any kind of open market. If anyone wants to move out, they surrender the lease (on the land), and they sell the house, which they own, to the Trust. The price they get is based on cost only, ie., reflecting only what the construction cost would have been to build the house, minus accrued depreciation. They do have the privilege of living in a nice location, but they are hardly making out like bandits financially.

 

[miketoronto]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Don't forget the financial cost of transportation for Island residents. They spend a ton of money on transportation. The average Island family spends over $4000 a year on ferries, and my coworker who lives on the islands told me that if the ferries are not running, it costs as much as $30.00 one way to ride a water taxi into the city or out to the islands. And the cost only goes down depending on how many people are on the taxi. And sometimes you are the only one

 

[Ed007Toronto]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

By the way, their lease payment may have been on the low side, but I wonder if most people know that part of the deal is that the Island residents will never have the opportunity to realize any appreciation on their houses, as most people do. They are not allowed to list them for sale in any kind of open market. If anyone wants to move out, they surrender the lease (on the land), and they sell the house, which they own, to the Trust. The price they get is based on cost only, ie., reflecting only what the construction cost would have been to build the house, minus accrued depreciation. They do have the privilege of living in a nice location, but they are hardly making out like bandits financially.

Technically they are not allowed to own another home in the city but many do. Not bad for a cottage.

 

[mark simpson]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

"and burying--for the love of all that is good and holy, FINALLY--the absurd hydro wires? "

Isn't it underway? I've noticed the wires removed this past year on several streets in the east end of downtown (ex. Queen between Church & Parliament) and several years ago on the west side (Little Italy) Only those lines powering the street lighting and the streetcar remain (hopefully a second phase including new decorative lighting will see these removed )

I agree we are behind most other NA cities in beautifying their urban core but it doesn't really bother me

 

[FutureMayor]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Technically they are not allowed to own another home in the city but many do. Not bad for a cottage.

This annoys me even more! The Government of Ontario should NOT being providing affordable housing, no wait a minute, more like DIRT CHEAP housing on the Island for a select few residents.

If we wanted to solve the homeless problem in Toronto we should be giving those homes away to people who actually need them!

Also give me a break about the cost of ferrying to the Island! They are already living on the Island for a dollar a day, and they have the nerve to complain about transportation costs?

I also wouldn't call the residents tourist attractions either, if anything they are doing everything possible to deter tourism from happening on the Island.

If the Island was to become a true tourist destination, I would convert all the homes to bed and breakfast operations. Ontario residents would get a discount for being a resident.

If the airport must go, in my humble opinion the Island residents must go as well.

Louroz

 

[adma]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

If the Island was to become a true tourist destination, I would convert all the homes to bed and breakfast operations. Ontario residents would get a discount for being a resident.

That's infantilizing "tourism". RIP Jane Jacobs.

 

[janschot]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

If that's the logic, then I would gladly keep - or expand - the airport if it's the price to be paid for keeping these two neighbourhoods in place.
Out-of-towners who I've brought to the city have been impressed by the island communities - the other 'attractions' on the islands? Not so much. Except for possibly the beach at Hanlan's.

 

[FutureMayor]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Out-of-towners who I've brought to the city have been impressed by the island communities

I've never heard of the Island residents as being a top tourist draw in this city. Having residents claiming their little plot of prime waterfront property on an island is hardly unique.

If the Island residents had their way, there probably wouldn't be any tourist allowed on the Island in the first place.

Louroz

 

[troodie]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

if you lived in one of those beautiful little cottages on the island, would you give it up to be 'fair' to the rest of the city. give me a break.

 

[adma]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Again, FutureMayor, you're infantilizing what "tourism" is or can be all about. You might as well claim that most tourists wouldn't see what's so special about the TD Centre; if you've seen one glass-and-steel office tower, you've seen'em all...

 

[janschot]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Louroz,
Honestly, most of the people I bring to Toronto have negative preconceptions of the place, being from Montreal, the United States, or distant parts of Canada. They aren't interested in seeing 'tourist draws' - and neither am I when I visit other cities. They're interested in culture and vital urban experiences. Things that can be supplied by places like Kensington, Little India or the Toronto Island neighbourhoods of Algonquin and Wards.
¿Are the island neighbourhoods a top tourist draw? Probably not - but a visit to Canada's Wonderland, the CN Tower or the CNE is unlikely to convince an adult Montreal visitor that Toronto is actually a cool place, whereas for one of my friends the Island bike ride is his favourite memory of his visit.
The Junction, Leslieville and Roncesvalles probably see very few tourists, but I'd never trade any of them for a seaquarium or a monorail to the Expo 2015 grounds.
You say: "Having residents claiming their little plot of prime waterfront property on an island is hardly unique." I'd counter that bulldozing the Island community (like we did with more than half of it) would have been the typical response of a North American city. If Toronto weren't unique for saving the island neighbourhoods, we'd still have Africville in Halifax, le Faubourg des Mélasses in Montréal and countless inner city communities in America's formerly Great Cities. Were that Toronto was less unique.
I'm confident that most Islanders are grateful for their "little plots of prime waterfront property" - the care they put into the upkeep of their houses and gardens is the proof. I must assume that you haven't been to these areas on a pleasant summer day. They are crowded by visitors from the mainland.
It's depressing that on the day of Jane Jacob's passing you could suggest the razing of one of the neighbourhoods that best embodies her ideals: short blocks, mix of building ages, mix of incomes and eyes on the street. Bureaucratic meddling in the heyday of Robert Moses removed the other positive aspects - the hotel, the movie theatre and the shops.
Don't take that reactionary eye editorial at face value. I hope you have a chance to visit the island this summer and talk to some residents. I'm sure you'll reconsider.

Jan Schotte

 

[SD2]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

You say: "Having residents claiming their little plot of prime waterfront property on an island is hardly unique." I'd counter that bulldozing the Island community (like we did with more than half of it) would have been the typical response of a North American city. If Toronto weren't unique for saving the island neighbourhoods, we'd still have Africville in Halifax, le Faubourg des M�lasses in Montr�al and countless inner city communities in America's formerly Great Cities. Were that Toronto was less unique.
I'm confident that most Islanders are grateful for their "little plots of prime waterfront property" - the care they put into the upkeep of their houses and gardens is the proof. I must assume that you haven't been to these areas on a pleasant summer day. They are crowded by visitors from the mainland.
It's depressing that on the day of Jane Jacob's passing you could suggest the razing of one of the neighbourhoods that best embodies her ideals: short blocks, mix of building ages, mix of incomes and eyes on the street. Bureaucratic meddling in the heyday of Robert Moses removed the other positive aspects - the hotel, the movie theatre and the shops.
Don't take that reactionary eye editorial at face value. I hope you have a chance to visit the island this summer and talk to some residents. I'm sure you'll reconsider.

Well said. It's very unique. As I said, as long as they pay for the privledge and don't hinder everyone elses enjoyment of the park, I have no problem with it.

The Island's wouldn't be the same without them.

 

[esplanade guy]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

I like the residential community on the Toronto Islands. It's unique, quirky and it feels safer knowing there are people living there. It's not like the Islands are over crowded and need the space. Other then Centre Island, the parks are usually fairly empty wheneve I go, although, I hear Hanlan's nude beach is quite crowdwd on weekends. I say leave it and work on improving the rest of the park.

 

[adma]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

How are they hindering anyone's enjoyment? I haven't heard of WardsAlgonquiners waving "go home" placards at Centreville customers--and conversely, I haven't heard of outsiders who go to WardsAlgonquin and say "ewww, yuck, gross". More often than not, if they seek to go there, they think it's kinda cool. And otherwise...well, face it; the "vulgar masses" who go for Centreville et al tend not to stray far from Centre Island, anyway.

So, there you have it. Maybe the bigger barrier to their enjoying Wards is that it's a heck of a long walk from Centreville to risk the kiddies saying "are we there yet". That's right; the biggest "barrier to enjoyment" on the Islands is the acres after acres of grassy/willowy nothingness, pure, maddening nothingness. Wards vs Hanlans; if you were a tourist or visitor, take your choice. (Nude beach aside, of course. Though of course, certain folks might claim, rightly or wrongly, that the nude beach--or *knowing* it's there, to say nothing of its users who might abduct and corrupt Junior or something--is more of a net "enjoyment hindrance" than the fuzzy-wuzzies out on Wards...)

 

[shawnmicallef]

Re: Blowing smoke on the water

Future> Your comments here are so over the top wrt the islanders, i'm beginning to wonder about other stuff you said about Tourism, in other areas of the city (in other threads). I think your idea of this city and where you place value, and what is "good" and (i hate this word) "authentic", and also what is cheesy tourist stuff that was born around boardroom tables by consultants in bad suits, is dramatically different than mine.

On the national tonight they ran a 1997 interview with Jane Jacobs -- in talking about the foolish things governments do, things that waste the rest of our time trying to get them to stop, one of the things she listed was "trying to throw people off the island here in Toronto".