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Toronto: Policed by out-of-towners?

L

Long Island Mike

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Everyone: I noticed an article in today's Toronto Star on how Toronto is policed by out-of-towners and that many officers commute to the City to work...

This reminds me of New York City-NYPD officers can live outside NYC in the NYS counties that border the City and the counties that border those: Bordering the City is Nassau County on LI and Westchester County borders the Bronx to the N...

The counties that NYPD officers can also live includes these counties based on the allowed residency area:
Suffolk (borders Nassau on LI);Rockland and Putnam (borders Westchester County) and as far as I know NYPD officers are NOT permitted to live in New Jersey...

There are cities with strict residency laws-Philadelphia and Chicago come to mind. In Philadelphia you must reside in Philadelphia County (co-exists with the City) for at least one year before applying for a Police or Fire Fighter job...and in Chicago there are certain neighborhoods that are inhabited predominantly by Police Officers and Fire Fighters and other City workers covered under residency laws...one I remember is the Mount Greenwood section on the far SW side of Chicago.

I would like to know how far away from the City of Toronto is the limit that Police Officers can live?
I do understand why-the high cost of City living and remembering that many NYC officers also are natives of outside NYC.
There has been mention to implement residency laws for the NYPD but the Police unions strongly oppose it...
One reason given for residency laws is that if cops live in the City they will get to know it better...
Another thing mentioned I recall was the race card...particularly White cops patrolling minority neighborhoods/areas...

The link to the Toronto Star article is:
www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/856817--toronto-policed-by-out-of-towners

Long Island Mike
 
As the story notes, residency laws for government employment haven't survived legal challenge in Canada. I think the idea has some merit, but on the other hand, surely the police can equally be more responsive/locally sensitive/whatever by working on those qualities, rather than by hiring only locals. And surely lots of locals can be nasty or insensitive too, etc. So I don't see it as such a big deal, so long as officers are required to get to know the communities in which they patrol. And that means walking around, not zooming through in cruisers.

Incidentally, I thought one of the reasons for police overreaction at the G20 was out of town cops not realising that a) hundreds of thousands of people live in downtown Toronto and b) don't typically get around in cars. One got the impression that cops brought in from Saskatoon or wherever were not aware that you could be walking on a downtown street that weekend and not necessarily looking for trouble.
 
I'd like confirmation but I can bet this is the case of every single large city across North America (New York / Chicago / Montreal / Vancouver / ........) and likely the world with no exceptions.
 
I agree, when police live & work in the same area they or their families are subject to intimidation or personal bias.
 
My wife's first cousin is a Toronto cop, but lives in Pickering. He joined up on the recommendation of his neighbour, also a Toronto cop. I don't care where someone lives, provided they show up for work on time and are reliable.

One of my Cabbagetown neighbours works at a company downtown and can't stand it when his collegues are late for meetings and commitments because they didn't leave their suburban homes in time on snowy, rainy and any other day. That would be my only beef with a Toronto cop who lives, for instance in Barrie, if they can't be counted on to be at work on time due to inability to leave home early enough to accurately manage their commute.
 
The article also mentioned that other local forces - such as Peel - did preferentially hire people who lived in their region. If Toronto doesn't do this, and other regions do, then we do have a problem.

Seems bizarre that our taxes would be allowing for the employment from those out-of-town when people in Toronto don't have the same opportunity to work in those areas.
 
The cost of housing is a major factor here. If you are a young officer, not at the top of the pay scale but trying to buy a house and raise kids in a decent family-friendly neighbourhood, it can be done more cheaply in Brampton or Barrie than in Toronto.
 
Observer Walt said:
The cost of housing is a major factor here. If you are a young officer, not at the top of the pay scale but trying to buy a house and raise kids in a decent family-friendly neighbourhood, it can be done more cheaply in Brampton or Barrie than in Toronto.
Click to expand...
There are plenty of people earning minimum wage who manage to raise kids in Toronto. Police are very well paid in comparison. A starting Toronto police salary is over $56,000, and even a constable can get over $80,000 after a few years. Part of the justification that Toronto police use to be higher paid is the cost of living in Toronto!

If it's cheaper to commute from Barrie to Toronto, clearly we aren't charging people enough to drive through rolling or road taxes.

Perhaps we should, like many employers, eliminate the free parking for employees at police stations.
 
The City's the exact same - the vast majority of people live outside of the city - the head of 416 lives in Newmarket.

I knew people who commuted in from places like Stratford and St. Catherine's when I was there.
 
nfitz said:
There are plenty of people earning minimum wage who manage to raise kids in Toronto. Police are very well paid in comparison. A starting Toronto police salary is over $56,000, and even a constable can get over $80,000 after a few years. Part of the justification that Toronto police use to be higher paid is the cost of living in Toronto!

If it's cheaper to commute from Barrie to Toronto, clearly we aren't charging people enough to drive through rolling or road taxes.

Perhaps we should, like many employers, eliminate the free parking for employees at police stations.
Click to expand...

If we have free parking for employees, then it must be required that employers provide the equivalent dollar amount (or based on the property tax portion that a parking stall occupies plus maintenance costs, if all parking in the immediate area is free) towards public transit. Else it should be a taxable benefit it they continue to do so. The median rate for parking in downtown Toronto is $336.25 a month. (Calgary has a median monthly rate of $453.38.)

So it should be a simply choice, they can get a MetroPass with no taxable benefit or a taxable benefit of $4,035 added for income tax if they use their car.
 
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What Police Force has the highest pay? and...other residency thoughts...

Everyone: I was thinking about this subject and I was wondering: What Ontario Police force has the best pay/benefits for its members if anyone knows?

In the NYC area the NYPD is not the highest-paid force-for those who patrol NYC that honor goes to the Port Authority of NY/NJ
Police who patrol PA-owned properties like the three major airports,interstate bridges and tunnels and the PATH rail system.
As a bistate agency they can live in both NY and NJ.

The highest paid Police officers are those from the Nassau and Suffolk County Police forces-I have heard that the average officer with salary/benefits makes over six figures and are also some of the highest paid in the entire USA. It is not unheard of for an officer to join the NYPD and go thru training and then if there is an class called for either of those two departments
they will apply and have a high chance of getting hired because of the experience and other factors...

Does the Toronto Police lose officers to lesser populated areas that may pay better and offer a easier work environment?

Speaking of residency - I remember being told that cops rarely live in the area that they directly patrol...
I will mention Philadelphia also because since officers must live in the City/County that there are neighborhoods similar to Chicago
especially in the "Far Northeast" area that are suburban in character but also offer the City residency needed to be employed
in prime Civil Service jobs like Police Officer and Fire Fighter...

With the high cost of living in cities like Toronto and NYC affordable housing is definitely a problem and cities like Chicago and Philadelphia City housing and Real Estate tend to be much cheaper combined with lower living costs...

In closing a long tough commute can take its toll over time...that goes for any job let alone important ones like Police Officer.

Thoughts from LI MIKE
 
Long Island Mike said:
Everyone: I was thinking about this subject and I was wondering: What Ontario Police force has the best pay/benefits for its members if anyone knows?

In the NYC area the NYPD is not the highest-paid force-for those who patrol NYC that honor goes to the Port Authority of NY/NJ
Police who patrol PA-owned properties like the three major airports,interstate bridges and tunnels and the PATH rail system.
As a bistate agency they can live in both NY and NJ.

The highest paid Police officers are those from the Nassau and Suffolk County Police forces-I have heard that the average officer with salary/benefits makes over six figures and are also some of the highest paid in the entire USA. It is not unheard of for an officer to join the NYPD and go thru training and then if there is an class called for either of those two departments
they will apply and have a high chance of getting hired because of the experience and other factors...

Does the Toronto Police lose officers to lesser populated areas that may pay better and offer a easier work environment?

Speaking of residency - I remember being told that cops rarely live in the area that they directly patrol...
I will mention Philadelphia also because since officers must live in the City/County that there are neighborhoods similar to Chicago
especially in the "Far Northeast" area that are suburban in character but also offer the City residency needed to be employed
in prime Civil Service jobs like Police Officer and Fire Fighter...

With the high cost of living in cities like Toronto and NYC affordable housing is definitely a problem and cities like Chicago and Philadelphia City housing and Real Estate tend to be much cheaper combined with lower living costs...

In closing a long tough commute can take its toll over time...that goes for any job let alone important ones like Police Officer.

Thoughts from LI MIKE
Click to expand...
Toronto, Peel, And London, Mike
 
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