Toronto: Policed by out-of-towners?

[nfitz]

ok, I am impressed, I will take you at your word that you have been advocating against the free parking issue. I apologize for that, nfitz. And I apologize for the other comment as you have informed me you are still waiting for that. And I apologize for all my yet to be conceived, ill conceived comments.

Okay

I am realistic enough to consider the possibility some out of town officers may have indulged themselves at some protestors' expense, and for everyone's amusement. And that some protestors did all they could to provoke officers. I just dont think its worth sorting out.

There's no question that protestors were provoking officers. And quite frankly, if an officer took a swing at one of them who was provoking him, I'm not too concerned - we are all human after all. I do think however, that both police and protesters who carried out pre-meditated acts should be dealt with. There's evidence that some protesters had planned violence all along; however there is also evidence that some police removed their identification in advance of encounters, so that they wouldn't be identified; I find this deeply disturbing ... and I would think that most police officers would also find that disturbing ... particularly as it alienates the police from others ... which isn't in anyone's best interest.

Since you carry a mental audit of all your past posts, come up with any generally favourable police comments? I'm really hoping you can't otherwise I will have to cash in another apology.

I think I've made several over the years (more than I've ever made about the fire or ambulance services ... though for no particular reason). Though I'd have to search to find them. Looking back I can see that I dismissed the criticism of the number of police on the $100K list as being only inflation, and criticised as offensive another poster who made a derogatory comment about the police. In the G20 thread, I've tried very hard not to blame the police as a whole, but only those who clearly did things they shouldn't. I even commented that "Most protesters and cops were great. Every officer I encountered that day was courteous, and respectful - even the SQ". I'm sure I tend to point out mistakes and problems, rather than when everything is going well.

(And you should congratulate me on becoming a senior UT member which I just noticed)

Oh dear ... should I tell you I'm opposed to age discrimination ... and believe that TTC shouldn't offer a discount based simply on age?

 

[nfitz]

I wonder if police dislike TTC commuting because in that environment, even 'off' duty, they still feel they need to be 'on'. If anything happens they feel compelled to intervene etc. By the end of shift perhaps they have had enough of the public etc.

Hmm ... an interesting thought ... but surely the same issue is present if they drive home. I'd have thought even more present, as I much more frequently notice someone doing something they shouldn't be while driving ... than I do on the TTC. I can't recall the last time I was on the TTC where a police officer should have intervened ... and it seems to happen quite frequently when I drive.

Is there some kind of regulation that a police officer has to travel back and forth to work in uniform? I've noticed military personal in uniform on transit more than I've ever noticed police officers.

 

[nfitz]

I disagree. Saying "Toronto" by itself is ambiguous."Toronto" by itself can mean any of the following: the GTA, current City of Toronto, former City of Toronto, former Metropolitan Toronto, former Toronto Township (Mississauga). Just because in your mind "Toronto" is short for "City of Toronto" does not necessarily make it so.

It's context ... if you ask someone at Yonge and Bloor where they live, and they say Toronto ... surely it means City of Toronto; if you ask someone in Paris where they live, and they say Toronto, then surely it doesn't necessarily mean City of Toronto.

That said, I think having residency requirements is silly, no matter who is doing it, it's discriminatory. Discriminating for a "good reason" is still a discriminatory.

I agree. However, the issue is that other police forces are discriminating. If they do, and we don't, how is that far to either the residents or taxpayers of Toronto?

And while I wouldn't propose a restriction, I don't see anything wrong with programs that would encourage those in Toronto to apply to the police; and also to discourage police from living in other cities.

 

[Dan416]

It's context ... if you ask someone at Yonge and Bloor where they live, and they say Toronto ... surely it means City of Toronto; if you ask someone in Paris where they live, and they say Toronto, then surely it doesn't necessarily mean City of Toronto.

I agree. However, the issue is that other police forces are discriminating. If they do, and we don't, how is that far to either the residents or taxpayers of Toronto?

And while I wouldn't propose a restriction, I don't see anything wrong with programs that would encourage those in Toronto to apply to the police; and also to discourage police from living in other cities.

If other police forces are discriminating, I think that's wrong as well. I don't see any problem with encouraging people to live in the city in which they work, but I see no reason to make a big fuss about it.

 

[doug]

THat being said, expecting cops to take the TTC after a 12 hour shift is a little rediculous, especially when they have to be back after 12 hours.

A lot of people work 12 hour shifts and take the TTC...why do you think cops are so special?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Why the hell do we care where our police live? They're paid to do a job, not marry their social, financial and off-duty hours to the city. If someone is willing to put himself between my family and some drugged-up, glock-armed gold-toothed gangs'ta wanna'be, then I don't care if he lives in Timmins. On my street in Cabbagetown, the police use my driveway as a blind to catch drivers endangering the neighbourhood by rolling through stop signs, and not once have we ask them if they live in "Toronto". Instead, my wife goes out and tells them thanks for being here, keeping my kids safer, and offers them a tea.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Weird out-of-place racist comments aside, don't you find you care more about the neighbourhood where your family lives versus, say, the area around your office park in Markham?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Ah, and that's the crux of it, we like cops, because the assumption that off duty they will care more about and be more involved in their local communities than the average citizen. Perhaps they'll be the kids soccer coach, or community leader. Okay, assuming that any of this were true, what incentive are we giving Toronto cops to live in Toronto? How about instead of saying you must live in Toronto to be a Toronto cop, we instead said if you live in Toronto and be a Toronto cop, Toronto will do something for you? When I lived in New Brunswick, small cities and towns would do almost anything to encourage doctors, dentists, and government to set up shop in their towns.

 

[GenerationW]

What I expect from our cops is to show up on time and do their jobs. Beyond that, they can teleport to and fro the Fortress of Solitude for all I care.

 

[Admiral Beez]

That's my thinking too, but seems to be the minority opinion here.

 

[gabe]

Why the hell do we care where our police live? They're paid to do a job, not marry their social, financial and off-duty hours to the city. If someone is willing to put himself between my family and some drugged-up, glock-armed gold-toothed gangs'ta wanna'be, then I don't care if he lives in Timmins. On my street in Cabbagetown, the police use my driveway as a blind to catch drivers endangering the neighbourhood by rolling through stop signs, and not once have we ask them if they live in "Toronto". Instead, my wife goes out and tells them thanks for being here, keeping my kids safer, and offers them a tea.

There is far far far far more important streets and neighborhoods the police should be patrolling, instead of keeping "drugged-up, glock-armed gold-toothed gangs'ta" from tea drinking old farts in Cabbagetown. rolling through stop signs? give me a break lets get the red light runners and drag racing idiots down Avenue rd i have encountered more times than i can count. I always ask my self where all the cops?? but now i know they are parked in people's driveway keeping cabbagetown safe.

I could careless where cops live, One of my family members was killed in the line of duty in 84 in Toronto during a shoot out with some nut case who dressed up like Rambo. It's a dangerous job that not just anyone can do. i know a few cops that have left the force with mental heath issues.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I'm not concerned with where police officers live. I'm concerned with the effectiveness of the officers, or more specifically the effectiveness of the policing system. From where I stand it looks as though most of the duties of a police officer today are beaurocratic in nature. That's OK, but I don't want to pay an officer $75,000 to fill out standard forms. Perhaps I'm wrong but I suspect the number of officers should be reduced and replaced by more administrators, or perhaps each remaining officer should need a personal assistant being paid 40-45,000 a year so that he/she can spend more time in the field. I have a friend who is a police officer in Toronto and I'm sure most are great people, but I must say my personal dealings with the policing system have not cast the effectiveness of their operations in a positive light in my mind. This in itself may not be such a big deal, but to the extent that the police budget gobbles up the largest chunk in the city budget it may actually be the central issue city hall should concern itself with.

 

[doug]

i know a few cops that have left the force with mental heath issues.

I know of quite a few who haven't left.

 

[Dan416]

I know of quite a few who haven't left.

I think you could say that about any occupation.

 

[buildup]

Both comments could be said about any profession.