Toronto Police Service Reformation

[Admiral Beez]

I agree its good to bring awareness but he always fail to see a lot of the actual grey side in issues.

He's an entertainer. If USA television news journalism worked as it should the grey side in issues would be brought to light by investigative reports instead of talking heads. Though they're constrained by both time and the inattention of their viewers, TV comedians seems to be the only people on TV that are peeling the onion at all.

 

[Jasmine18]

Maybe we can fix policing if we ban Paw Patrol and Brooklyn Nine-Nine.

 

[Northern Light]

John Tory is out with a massive 18-part motion to reform policing in Toronto:

Agenda Item History - 2020.CC22.2

What it does not do is set an explicit target of reducing the police budget; though that is implicit.

There is also no request to review whether all officers should carry guns.

That said there are many good things in the motion.

Including, but not limited to..........

Changing use of force regulations to focus on de-escalation.

A line by line review of the police budget with full public disclosure of same.

A move to shift responsibility for non-violent calls, including those for people with mental health crisis to non-police.

A mandate for body cameras including penalties for officers who cover or turn them off.

Shifting additional financial resources to anti-racism and anti-poverty initiatives.

Lots more there, please go have a look!

 

[Jasmine18]

John Tory is out with a massive 18-part motion to reform policing in Toronto:

Agenda Item History - 2020.CC22.2

What it does not do is set an explicit target of reducing the police budget; though that is implicit.

There is also no request to review whether all officers should carry guns.

That said there are many good things in the motion.

Including, but not limited to..........

Changing use of force regulations to focus on de-escalation.

A line by line review of the police budget with full public disclosure of same.

A move to shift responsibility for non-violent calls, including those for people with mental health crisis to non-police.

A mandate for body cameras including penalties for officers who cover or turn them off.

Shifting additional financial resources to anti-racism and anti-poverty initiatives.

Lots more there, please go have a look!

Realistic ideas I think that dont but the public at risk with punitive spitful cuts to the police due to ideology and focus on fixing issues for the betterment of all

 

[picard102]

Most of the motions are requesting other bodies to do these things.
For instance, use of force is a provincial regulation and the city has no power to change it.
Though the TPSB is mostly council members, we'll see in a year if any of these changes result in the kind of outcomes people are imagining.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I had an elderly tenant a long time ago who had to get formed because her mental health deteriorated to the point where she couldn’t functionally live alone and she had no current friends or relations to take responsibility for her.

On the day she was to be taken away two burly police officers showed up. These guys were fresh rookie gung ho type guys. The tenant in question was like 85 pounds. To be honest I was leery of how this was going to go down. I just sensed there could easily have been a needless escalation that day based on the vibe I was getting and we accompanied the police actually out of concern for the well-being of the tenant who was naturally confused and disoriented.

I’m sharing this anecdote because this kind of thing goes down every day. While I’m critical of the attitude of the officers in the story we need to recognize that these guys have really mentally tough jobs and no matter how well they are trained sometimes emotions get the best of you. From a procedural perspective though the degree of force present was seemingly disproportionate to the situation. Discussions of better ways of dealing with these situations is needed and how police are involved; however, ultimately sometimes police and force and even deadly force may be required.

 

[Soop]

I had an elderly tenant a long time ago who had to get formed because her mental health deteriorated to the point where she couldn’t functionally live alone and she had no current friends or relations to take responsibility for her.

On the day she was to be taken away two burly police officers showed up. These guys were fresh rookie gung ho type guys. The tenant in question was like 85 pounds. To be honest I was leery of how this was going to go down. I just sensed there could easily have been a needless escalation that day based on the vibe I was getting and we accompanied the police actually out of concern for the well-being of the tenant who was naturally confused and disoriented.

I’m sharing this anecdote because this kind of thing goes down every day. While I’m critical of the attitude of the officers in the story we need to recognize that these guys have really mentally tough jobs and no matter how well they are trained sometimes emotions get the best of you. From a procedural perspective though the degree of force present was seemingly disproportionate to the situation. Discussions of better ways of dealing with these situations is needed and how police are involved; however, ultimately sometimes police and force and even deadly force may be required.

And yet if you are family, it's very difficult to get a family member forced to move into care without involving the police or emergency services. My mom was the primary go-to for her mother (1 sibling in BC, 1 in Costa Rica and 1 takes 1/2 year in Florida). She was getting calls all the time from her mother's apt superintendent that Oma had yet again forgot a pot on the stove or she was wandering around lost . My mom was getting no help from Oma's dr or other services, so she finally told the super to call the police first. Eventually they had enough of a file on Oma to make her go into care.

 

[TrickyRicky]

Thanks for sharing your story Soop. In our case it was the same that somehow we as landlords were the lead in dealing with the situation. Maybe larger operations have special relationships with social services etc. but I have no qualifications or training of how to deal with situations of that nature and everything in my experience seemed very siloed and ad hoc.

 

[Northern Light]

Judgment is out on the Dafonte Miller case.

Michael, the off-duty cop, brother, has been convicted of assault, but not on aggravated assault or obstruct justice; while his brother is not guilty on all counts.

The judge actually found the brothers probably committed an aggravated assault but that the evidence to meet the burden of 'Beyond a reasonable doubt'.

This may well spark further protests.

I listened carefully to the judge's reasoning and I understand it; but I respectfully disagree. I think the individual points at which doubt may exist, are entirely legitimate; but I draw a different conclusion when looking at the evidence in its totality.

We shall have to see if there is an appeal.

Sentence is pending.

Of note, the judge seemed to express irritation that he did not have the option of convicting on assault with a weapon, but indicated that that charge was not before the court. That certainly begs the question as to why.

***

Next Steps, The officer should be fired. Mr. Miller should civilly sue, I think the judgement itself lays the ground work for a likely civil victory.

The sentence rendered should be the maximum the law allows.

The Crown should carefully consider grounds for appeal.

 

[W. K. Lis]

With speed cameras, the armed police officer is less needed to enforce speed limits.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1276531907501662209

Note: the speeders will get the fines and a pretty picture of the vehicle to put into their wallet when they go over 10 km/h the posted speed limit.

 

[picard102]

It's not over 10km/h, it's idiotically over 1km/h.

 

[lenaitch]

With speed cameras, the armed police officer is less needed to enforce speed limits.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1276531907501662209

Note: the speeders will get the fines and a pretty picture of the vehicle to put into their wallet when they go over 10 km/h the posted speed limit.

No they won't - the registered owners will.

It's not over 10km/h, it's idiotically over 1km/h.

The set fine schedule covers all rates over the posted limit. I saw nothing in the release indicating a discretionary set-point, nor would I expect to since that would become the de facto limit.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It's not over 10km/h, it's idiotically over 1km/h.

That's the fine rates. The cameras get triggered when someone goes over 10 km/h.

 

[lenaitch]

Judgment is out on the Dafonte Miller case.

Michael, the off-duty cop, brother, has been convicted of assault, but not on aggravated assault or obstruct justice; while his brother is not guilty on all counts.

The judge actually found the brothers probably committed an aggravated assault but that the evidence to meet the burden of 'Beyond a reasonable doubt'.

This may well spark further protests.

I listened carefully to the judge's reasoning and I understand it; but I respectfully disagree. I think the individual points at which doubt may exist, are entirely legitimate; but I draw a different conclusion when looking at the evidence in its totality.

We shall have to see if there is an appeal.

Sentence is pending.

Of note, the judge seemed to express irritation that he did not have the option of convicting on assault with a weapon, but indicated that that charge was not before the court. That certainly begs the question as to why.

***

Next Steps, The officer should be fired. Mr. Miller should civilly sue, I think the judgement itself lays the ground work for a likely civil victory.

The sentence rendered should be the maximum the law allows.

The Crown should carefully consider grounds for appeal.

Patient man (or Covid bored). I didn't follow the ruling and only memory of media surrounding the original trail. Why the charge of Assault w/Weapon wasn't laid is a fair one. I assume the police sought the advice of Crown Law before laying charges.

The Crown's ability to appeal, especially in light of a conviction, is very limited. It would have to argue the Court committed an error in law, not fact or conclusion. I would not be surprised if the accused considers an appeal (defence can appeal on grounds of fact and law), but that comes with its own risk. If the Appeal Court agrees and grants a new trial, they could well end up with a worse verdict.

Sentencing will be interesting, particularly since the judge has mused that an Assault w/Weapon charge (which has a higher penalty) might have been made out. Agree that the TPS should go after his job, and that a civil action would likely be successful.

 

[Jasmine18]

The issue is to reform the police but a lot of people think we can live in a society without any police


And you know the funny thing is people who call for abolishing the police are the same people who stay silent when there is rampant gun violence in the black community.


So that's why we should just ignore such people.