Toronto Pinnacle One Yonge | 345.5m | 105s | Pinnacle | Hariri Pontarini

Big Daddy said:
Oh, well I guess you're right - since larger "family size" units are unaffordable by all but the wealthiest families, I guess these families can take a hike. Push them out to the suburbs, who needs 'em anyway? However, 90% or more of our young singles and couples eventually have children, so ultimately they must all move to the suburbs to raise their families. I suppose though that this ends up being one of the main drivers for the whole commuting issue so maybe they should start building more office space in the suburbs or something - or tell people to stop having families?
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That's the way it's been in Manhattan for a number of years now. Rich families have pushed out the middle class families. My friends in NYC over the last few years have moved further out into the burbs and boroughs when they started having kids. They drive or take transit to get to work in Manhattan.
 
gabe said:
That's the way it's been in Manhattan for a number of years now. Rich families have pushed out the middle class families. My friends in NYC over the last few years have moved further out into the burbs and boroughs when they started having kids. They drive or take transit to get to work in Manhattan.
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it is not just Manhattan. London, Paris, Toyko, Seoul Shanghai, Chicago, Zurich, all the financial centres work like this. This is the price we pay for living in a major city. Why are people complaining about this? Where in the world a major healthy city with great uban life offers cheap housing in its core?
It is normal. It is not normal to expect the centres of these cities to remain affordable for families making average incomes.
 
Oh boy, I know I'm just asking for it, BUT, generally, isn't that the way it usually works? Young couple meet, fall in love, move in together, get a place in the city, decide to have kids, move to the burbs for more space and a better place to raise a family? I'm not saying, at all, they shouldn't stay in the core, but I think a lot of people prefer the park lands and less densely populated areas in which to raise a family. That being said, they shouldn't be forced to do so simply because there are no family friendly units available in the core. Some people do choose to live and raise a family in the core, and what's wrong with that?
 
Including my own family with one child, there are three other families with children living on the 25th floor at 18 Harbour, next door to this project. Our daycare is packed and has a waiting list, a school bus comes twice a day to pickup/drop off kids for school. Never assume that families don't live downtown
 
Big Daddy said:
Oh, well I guess you're right - since larger "family size" units are unaffordable by all but the wealthiest families, I guess these families can take a hike. Push them out to the suburbs, who needs 'em anyway? However, 90% or more of our young singles and couples eventually have children, so ultimately they must all move to the suburbs to raise their families. I suppose though that this ends up being one of the main drivers for the whole commuting issue so maybe they should start building more office space in the suburbs or something - or tell people to stop having families?
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I don't think families should take a hike. I just don't see why buildings like 1 Yonge get all the flack because they cater to young singles. It's not zero-sum between families and young singles. Why not start complaining about retirement homes, too? Cities can be enriched by their heterogeneity. Some areas will be more family centric (The beaches), some areas may cater to people's lifestyle (Church and Wellesley), some areas younger and some older. Immigrant groups often prefer locating in immigrant communities.

I'd agree that many people who move downtown as a bachelor/ette are subsequently unable to afford family sized housing later and move out to the 'burbs. The bigger issue here probably isn't the 1 Yonges of Toronto but the lack of much (any?) development or intensification of peri-urban parts of the City. Or that we don't design our suburbs in an environmentally and transit friendly fashion at all.
 
Mike in TO said:
So from a value proposition point of view, even if they could afford it I would suggest that most average couples with two kids looking to live in the city would rather spend their $850k on a home in Riverdale, Cabbagetown, Little Italy etc rather than on a two bedroom condo - I'm not suggesting there are no families looking for condo options, but that there are significant barriers to affordability given all the input costs of providing that type of housing in a large format suitable for families.
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Yes, this is exactly it. Areas like Riverdale or the Beaches should always be cheaper relative to the financial district. Childless yuppies can justify living in the relatively more expensive to central area because of proximity to amenities (bars, restaurants, nightlife, other childless yuppies) and jobs.

Take the nuclear family though (one income earner, one dependant spouse, three kids and a dog.) Admittedly this doesn't match census reality, but it illustrates the point clearly. Only 1/5 members of that family will derive any of the proximity benefits to living close to work. Even if the parents ate out and went barhopping and clubbing every night, there would still only be 2/5 family members enjoying that proximity. On the other hand, if that same family moved away from the core, only 1/5 would have to commute to work so on and so on.

Childless yuppies will always accept higher per-sq-ft costs because they don't have to warehouse a bunch of dependants, which in turn should always make downtown relatively unsuitable for bigger families.
 
Downtown developments could stress infrastructure with influx of people
TORONTO – With massive new developments being proposed for the city’s downtown core, some experts and residents are questioning whether Toronto`s infrastructure can handle the influx of people.

Details of a new development at One Yonge Street, including four residential towers measuring 70, 70, 92 and 98 storeys, leaked in the architecture blog UrbanToronto.ca Thursday.
http://www.globaltoronto.com/downto...e+with+influx+of+people/6442783618/story.html
 
3Dementia said:
Global TV news story with some very fine graphics ;-)

http://www.globaltoronto.com/downto...e+with+influx+of+people/6442783618/story.html
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we don't even have a single tower over 300m and they are saying our skyline is becoming like Hong Kong and Shanghai. Com'on, even if every single proposal is constructed, Toronto is still mostly a lowrise city with low density.

I do hope 1 Yonge, Mirvish and the Convention Centre project can all go as planned.

Have we noticed most of these projects are either right on Yonge st or south of King st? That only means our downtown is far from mature and satuated. Lots remain to be added in the years to come.
 
Too many people. Developers are greedy. Waterfront. My view. Shadows. Here first. Vertical Slum. Tidal waves. Earthquakes. Apocalypse.
/s

P.S. I find it iritating that the video put together by the Globe clearly uses plenty of graphics and renders from UT members and one mention of the site in the article is apparently sufficient for supposed journalists. No fine print over the image or anything.
 
I love how the woman is screaming about 15,000 people literally right beside the largest transit hub in the country and acts like it will overload infrastructure.(specifically talking about the York and Bremner area here)
 
balenciaga said:
we don't even have a single tower over 300m and they are saying our skyline is becoming like Hong Kong and Shanghai. Com'on, even if every single proposal is constructed, Toronto is still mostly a lowrise city with low density.

I do hope 1 Yonge, Mirvish and the Convention Centre project can all go as planned.

Have we noticed most of these projects are either right on Yonge st or south of King st? That only means our downtown is far from mature and satuated. Lots remain to be added in the years to come.
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I read the article but didn't see them mention hk or shanghai. What exactly are you talking about?
 
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