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steveintoronto

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Looks like they are taking this more seriously than even the city is.
Or the Investment Bank is (or isn't). At the end of the day, and I state this out of frustration as to how VIA's HFR has been left hanging, along with the impetus of the likes of their CEO, Dejardins-Siciliano: Private Enterprise (like the Pension Plans, etc) must be thinking: "Screw the gov't agencies, we'll take the initiative, and then approach them when it's well underway for a grant or other contribution since the governments seem to be clueless at doing what it takes to get these things started".

Just checked the links now Alex. That's a totally different PR approach than what was initially presented. The original PR turned me off, it was so full of needless bluster and irrelevance.

Someone new is handling it this time, and I'm totally 'in' on this.
 

gweed123

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Or the Investment Bank is (or isn't). At the end of the day, and I state this out of frustration as to how VIA's HFR has been left hanging, along with the impetus of the likes of their CEO, Dejardins-Siciliano: Private Enterprise (like the Pension Plans, etc) must be thinking: "Screw the gov't agencies, we'll take the initiative, and then approach them when it's well underway for a grant or other contribution since the governments seem to be clueless at doing what it takes to get these things started".

Just checked the links now Alex. That's a totally different PR approach than what was initially presented. The original PR turned me off, it was so full of needless bluster and irrelevance.

Someone new is handling it this time, and I'm totally 'in' on this.
I think that may be a worthwhile approach. Do the planning and consultation in-house, and then go to the government of the day when the project is almost ready to have them write you a cheque for a portion of it. They still get their press conference, shovel photo op, and ribbon cutting photo op, but their hands are out of the important stages of the project (planning & design).
 

jje1000

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I think that may be a worthwhile approach. Do the planning and consultation in-house, and then go to the government of the day when the project is almost ready to have them write you a cheque for a portion of it. They still get their press conference, shovel photo op, and ribbon cutting photo op, but their hands are out of the important stages of the project (planning & design).
Isn't that how the Montreal REM was done? I vaguely remember that Caisse coordinated most of the pre-planning work.

That being said, I wonder how the GTAA will profit off a Union West beyond check-in relocation and redevelopment potential? Will they charge a fee to the transit operators using the terminal?
 

Woodbridge_Heights

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Taking a cursory glance at their quarterly financial statements it looks like they retired a series of bonds issued in 2009 early and issued a new set of bonds this year. Old bonds carried a coupon rate of 5.96% while the new bonds carry a coupon rate of 3.26% a difference of 2.7%. Quite a significant savings.

Then again they do seem to be ramping for a new period of construction/expansion and may be in need of the funds. They had $12.2 million in "cash" on dec 31, 2017, so not muchbif they are planning on spending billions over the next couple of decades
 

steveintoronto

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Will they charge a fee to the transit operators using the terminal?
That's a good question. I'd instinctively say "yes"...but there may be offsets they're willing to forego just to have the traffic moving through their facility. I'd venture to guess that it will be market value rent, or slightly below, depending on how early king-pin operators like Metrolinx or the local bus companies, VIA 'buy in'. There's also the possibility of a leasehold on the land used for infrastructure, and the mentioned operators DBFOM with caveats such as joint planning and co-ordination. Fees may be applicable to shared roadways, facilities.
Isn't that how the Montreal REM was done? I vaguely remember that Caisse coordinated most of the pre-planning work.
That's a very good point, and certainly a precedent was set in many ways, not all of them likeable in terms of *how* they were implemented, like the Mount Royal Tunnel grab, but that was political v engineering/fiduciary.

And speaking of politics, VIA and the GTAA now have the right to say to the InfraBank: "Our turn".

If I were a large concern, I'd want as much designed and developed under my watch and control as possible, before allowing the gov't (at any level) to 'buy in' and get some control with it.

For better or worse, IIRC, GTAA still has an ongoing issue with Mississauga on taxes and other fees.
 
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gweed123

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Isn't that how the Montreal REM was done? I vaguely remember that Caisse coordinated most of the pre-planning work.

That being said, I wonder how the GTAA will profit off a Union West beyond check-in relocation and redevelopment potential? Will they charge a fee to the transit operators using the terminal?
I believe so, yes. They had done a lot of the planning leg work on it before it even became public, as far as I know.

While one could see this as being a less accountable way of doing things, I prefer to see it as a safer way as far as politics are concerned. Less time in the eyes of politicians means less opportunity for them to pervert it with their political motivations. Also, with fewer changes in government between project announcement and project construction start, there's less opportunity for politically motivated funding pulling.

As for the fee to use the terminal, I would think that a Vancouver type of situation would probably be applied.
 

Woodbridge_Heights

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Well how does union generate revenue??? I imagine it would be a similar model.

That said i can see it just bocoming a line item in the cost of operating the airport, just like t1 and t3 operating costs, or the link train. Particularly so if they move passenger check in facilities into the transit hub. Since then it becomes one of the steps in travelling through the airport
 

kEiThZ

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New website says that Phase 1 of Union Station North will be complete by the late 2020s.

It appears they're viewing this as a super-long-term project, essentially "25 year master plan league"
They can fund the hub on their own. And they will. The only reason it’s a 25 year plan is because the lines to the hub will take 25 years to build.
 

kEiThZ

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That being said, I wonder how the GTAA will profit off a Union West beyond check-in relocation and redevelopment potential? Will they charge a fee to the transit operators using the terminal?
It’s not just about. It’s also about cost avoidance. It’s really expensive to build more parking as the airport grows. So they need to shift transit modal share to the airport. Also, if HFR/HSR happens, they can save slots serving London and others as service improves.
 

Woodbridge_Heights

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Thinking about this a bit. I think a good day one goal would be to have the Eglinton Crosstown, Finch West LRT, 407 BRT (pending construction by Metrolinx/TTC), GO transit airport routes, and Dixon/Lawrence W bus services meeting at the transit hub. That would cover a pretty wide swath across Toronto.

Mississauga Transit would feed it's Miway service, plus Airport Rd and potentially Derry routes in as well.


If and when the 427 BRT is built that would also operate out of the transit hub
 

mdrejhon

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It’s not just about. It’s also about cost avoidance. It’s really expensive to build more parking as the airport grows. So they need to shift transit modal share to the airport. Also, if HFR/HSR happens, they can save slots serving London and others as service improves.
More lucrative international flights replacing less profitable London/Ottawa/Montreal flights that will be served more often by increasingly faster/frequent HxR trains.

It wasn't long ago that they were fighting against UPX and charging them an unfriendly parking-revenue-loss fee. Which they now gleefully eliminated later.

They're finally "getting" it (sorta).

UPX totally redeems itself in giving the "transit drug" needed for Pearson's change of heart. Now they want to bankroll a transit red carpet.
 

gweed123

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They can fund the hub on their own. And they will. The only reason it’s a 25 year plan is because the lines to the hub will take 25 years to build.
What I can see them potentially doing is roughing in all the rail platforms and protecting the approaches, but building a larger-than-needed bus terminal within the hub. I can see the TTC operating a number of express bus routes, similar to the Airport Express from Kipling, into that hub. It may not have rail service from Day 1 (aside from UPX), but I think there will be quite a few bus routes that will either be created or modified that will still connect to it.
 

TOareaFan

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Start here, at this link.

Generally speaking, it would be across the street (Airport Road), next to 409.


From link.
That is where they first proposed it in 2017 when they started discussing/pushing the whole Union West idea......it was, of course, before they purchased the International Centre....I still hold out hope that they move the idea of Union west to the north side of the International Centre and utilize the rails that already go there.....it would mean a longer more elaborate people mover to get people from the terminals to the transportation centre.....but I don't think it would be much longer than, say, Atlanta's terminal train.

At a NAIOP event at the International Centre about Union West (held in April 2018) they were very non-commital/a bit evasive about how it would (or if it would) be part of the transportation plans.
 

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