Toronto Pearson International Airport

[Duck]

Not impossible, but very inflexible and difficult to expand, compared to other AGT or APM technologies. You have to gut the whole T1 station hardware and move it out, even if you just want to keep it simple and just have one train per line. I can't recall where the drive motor is (I suspect Viscount) but it's a nontrivial task. Heck, the system was down for 6 months just to replace the main haul ropes a year or so ago.

The system you're thinking of is likely the new Doppelmayr installation in Oakland - which ended up costing almost half a billion dollars. It also has a ridiculously complex haul rope system that requires trains to stop halfway between stations to switch ropes, which takes almost a full minute. I'm an engineer and I love overly complex stuff, but I don't think this is what we want here.

 

[Voltz]

Not impossible, but very inflexible and difficult to expand, compared to other AGT or APM technologies. You have to gut the whole T1 station hardware and move it out, even if you just want to keep it simple and just have one train per line. I can't recall where the drive motor is (I suspect Viscount) but it's a nontrivial task. Heck, the system was down for 6 months just to replace the main haul ropes a year or so ago.

The system you're thinking of is likely the new Doppelmayr installation in Oakland - which ended up costing almost half a billion dollars. It also has a ridiculously complex haul rope system that requires trains to stop halfway between stations to switch ropes, which takes almost a full minute. I'm an engineer and I love overly complex stuff, but I don't think this is what we want here.

No that is a pinched loop system, the continuous movement system is newer and likely works similarly to a detachable ski lift system, which Doppelmayr also makes.

http://www.dcc.at/solutions/configurations/

 

[muller877]

No that is a pinched loop system, the continuous movement system is newer and likely works similarly to a detachable ski lift system, which Doppelmayr also makes.

http://www.dcc.at/solutions/configurations/

The problem with a detachable system is that the vehicles have to be in continuous movement. If they are not, there is a very high risk of a collision. That is why you see ski lifts or gondola's used for transit (even the most complex ones) slowly move throughout the station. In fact, the same motor drives both the slow-moving drive through all the stations as well as the cable attached to all of the stations (and there is only one motor on any lift).

Say this was not the case and there is an emergency where a door is jammed. The vehicle behind would be going full speed into the station without the ability to stop. This is the reason for this fail-safe design.

The other problem with a continuous loop system is that you do need a loop on both ends...added cost. And it is continually moving....so no platform edge doors (there may be ways but it is difficult without increasing the safety risk). The benefit is that you can have smaller but more regular cars.

 

[Voltz]

The problem with a detachable system is that the vehicles have to be in continuous movement. If they are not, there is a very high risk of a collision. That is why you see ski lifts or gondola's used for transit (even the most complex ones) slowly move throughout the station. In fact, the same motor drives both the slow-moving drive through all the stations as well as the cable attached to all of the stations (and there is only one motor on any lift).

Say this was not the case and there is an emergency where a door is jammed. The vehicle behind would be going full speed into the station without the ability to stop. This is the reason for this fail-safe design.

The other problem with a continuous loop system is that you do need a loop on both ends...added cost. And it is continually moving....so no platform edge doors (there may be ways but it is difficult without increasing the safety risk). The benefit is that you can have smaller but more regular cars.

I'm assuming that DCC has figured those issues out before offering it. Most new ski lifts that I have been on have a row of electric motors along the path of the chair that drive rubber wheels that make contact with the chair and move it through the station, such a system in a cable car could obviously bring the train to a stop in the station and then accelerate it back up to line speed. And they mention headways of about a minute, hardy a risk of immanent collision.

 

[Duck]

Yeah - going way off topic here, but typically the cadencing tires in the stations for detachables are now powered by their own electric motors, and a certain section of the tires can either advance or retard a chair/cabin so that it matches it's exact theoretical point on the main rope. Doppelmayr and Poma both have a couple of peoplemover systems that already work this way.

Back to Pearson: Yes, the Terminal LINK train could be extended, but it's going to be a hell of a project and require that the whole thing shuts down for years. I think whoever made that vendor choice was severely blind to the complexity of doing so in the future (or just didn't care).

 

[rbt]

Back to Pearson: Yes, the Terminal LINK train could be extended, but it's going to be a hell of a project and require that the whole thing shuts down for years. I think whoever made that vendor choice was severely blind to the complexity of doing so in the future (or just didn't care).

Didn't care, and history has proven them correct.

Those things have a life-span of about 20 years before needing a major overhaul. It's already 10 years old and there is nothing firm requiring an extension. So, job well done at a discounted cost.

Second to that, evidently 80%+ of the passengers of the Link train are airport staff. They do have a plan for an air-side shuttle/train which could be built prior rebuilding the existing Link train and would accommodate nearly all time-sensitive airport customer uses.

If it got replaced with buses for a few years, it would increase operating costs but it wouldn't really impact airport passengers much. Just the handful of non-staff that use the discount parking lot.

 

[jcam]

Best case scenario would be that the piers could support the weight of the structure for a different system, but replacing all of the spans wouldn't be a small task. Hopefully the drive system is at Viscount, but who knows.

 

[drum118]

The supports for the Link will support an LRT, but will have to be modify in places to support the beams to carry the LRT.

If you want the line to be extended to Woodbine, Viscount station will have to be relocated which will require new supports and a new station. You could use this as part of the Finch LRT extension.

Going south to Renforth Station will follow the proposed route of the Eglinton LRT line years ago and be part of it. Again part of the Eglinton line could interline with the Finch line to offer 5 minute service for the airport from the current 7 minutes.

Should take no more than 2 years to do the change over, depending on what is to take place.

Forget about upgrading the Link for extension, as the headway will increase.

 

[Duck]

LRT! Are you kidding? Massive concrete trough, no way the current pylons would support that. The Doppelmayr guideway is light, that's one of their main selling points. Monorail maybe, but nothing beyond that certainly.

What is this future airside APM Plan?? INNOVIA 300? Crystal Mover?

 

[salsa]

The terminal 1 transit centre now has heated shelters and new wait time info.

 

[LNahid2000]

Awesome! I always hated fumbling with my phone trying to load NextBus when I got to the airport.

 

[Komiksulo]

Finally! Departure info from different carriers in the same place! This is one of the problems I have with interchange places like the Newmarket bus terminal, where the YRT info is on one screen, and GO is on another.
Technical writer nitpick: centre is inconsistently spelled.

 

[TOareaFan]

Finally! Departure info from different carriers in the same place! This is one of the problems I have with interchange places like the Newmarket bus terminal, where the YRT info is on one screen, and GO is on another.
Technical writer nitpick: centre is inconsistently spelled.

nice catch!

 

[nfitz]

Exellent! TTC data looks like realtime. GO and Brampton look like timetable. Not sure about Mississauga.

Also good advertising for those who might consider it in the future.

 

[Napoleon]

Wow that's great to see the departure signs updated. I've always felt like Toronto was particularly uninformative/uninviting when you arrived at Pearson and wanted to take transit.