Toronto Parliament Street Data Centre | ?m | 5s | BRL Realty | WZMH

DtTO said:
I apologize for being off topic, but does anyone know why the Porsche dealership moved across the street again? Seems a little odd.
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It was a land swap. The Province wanted to buy the old Porsche building to begin assembling the First Parliament Site. The owner of the building was Dr. Sylvester Chuang, a pediatrician at St. Michael's hospital I believe. He and the Province agreed to swap his land for the site opposite on the north-west corner of Front and Parliament, as well as the TTC turnaround parcel to the north of that on the south-west corner of King and Parliament. The swap transaction also included the parcel of land on the south-east corner of Front and Trinity where Volvo is today. So Dr. Chaung got three valuable sites for one. Quite a deal you might say.
 
Interesting, it appears there will be a section of data processing facing the street with curtain wall cladding. Might be an interesting sight when walking by to see hundreds of computers whizzing away.
 
The detailed elevations on the site show quite a change from the rendering. The complex scatter pattern on the facade is entirely gone for something I'm guessing is less expensive to implement. Too bad; the project looks far more ordinary to me now.

There should be a snappy UT term to describe what's happened to the design.

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I think the data centre should have been designed with retail, along the Parliament Street side. That site will be very prominent and busy one day, and it will need some animation to keep it interesting. A few small retail spaces and a cafe or restaurant (with sidewalk patio) could have made a huge difference in how interesting it will be walking there. Parliament needs to be animated from top to bottom and this is not the way to do it.
 
I like the south/west perspective for the renderpeople and rendercars.

First, there's the cop who's about to have a talking to the viewer of the image - though he's wearing an American style police uniform with prominent badge and reaching at his gun. All the cars are either missing front licence plates or have European plates.
 
Torontovibe said:
I think the data centre should have been designed with retail, along the Parliament Street side. That site will be very prominent and busy one day, and it will need some animation to keep it interesting. A few small retail spaces and a cafe or restaurant (with sidewalk patio) could have made a huge difference in how interesting it will be walking there. Parliament needs to be animated from top to bottom and this is not the way to do it.
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The DD is two seconds away...

I guess I see things a lot differently than many forum members who are always mentioning street animation and better retail. Speaking for myself, I'd rather have a vibrant 'node' of retail that I can walk to, even if I have to pass not-so-interesting-things to get there. I have lived across from High Park in a very dense residential area with zero retail. But yet, a few mins walk down Bloor street was 400 shops and services of Bloor West Village...and yet when a development proposal was put forth recently, forum members wanted retail on High Park Av (just north of Bloor) on the ground floor of the proposed condo. Not one of my neighbours wanted retail here. In fact, we liked that we had to walk a few mins to have far better retail down the street. We know that this is not a commercial zone. Most people love that it's vibrant with walkers, cyclists, dogs...and no retail.

This is how I see the data centre...that the Distillery District is only a short walk away from this site...why eat into the success of existing businesses there for crap retail here. When the First Parliament site is built, I'm sure that there will be a small cafe open right next door. In time. This area is in redevelopment already. I'm all for new employment lands, like this site. But having vacant store fronts for years in unnecessary.

I can somewhat see your point...I just find it's not realistic with our population and that most people in Toronto are either low-income or middle-income and we only have so much money to spend on our walks :p
 
^^ Well, if you look at the great cities of the world (London, Paris & New York) you will see that most of their main streets have a consistent cluster of retail. It's not little bits of retail here and there, with nothing in between. There is a reason that those cities are loved around the world and are the word's top tourism destinations. Even if you look at Toronto, the most popular destinations are streets that are highly animated and have consistent retail. (Kensington Market, The Beaches, Queen West, Yorkville, Yonge Street) It's obvious that most people like areas that are animated and concentrated. Most people like being around other large groups of people.

I just happen to love Paris and London, so it's no surprise that I prefer that kind of urbanity. I think we can learn a lot about creating great public spaces and animated streets by looking to Europe. Every time I'm in London or Paris, I'm blown away by how wonderfully those cities are designed and how much people seem to enjoy them. Those are the models I look to when thinking about how to make Toronto a great city. Of course, I'm not saying we should copy any city, but we should take the best of what they offer and make it our own.

Public Squares, like the one across from the data centre, should be surrounded by retail, restaurants, bars and cafes. The best urban, public squares in the world are. Thinking ahead to the future, I imagine this area will have a much bigger population and a lot more tourists. Why not plan for that and take advantage of it. The more vibrant and lively the downtown core is, the better our city will be. Once our main streets, like Parliament, are fully developed, you will still have the smaller residential streets, if you prefer to walk along quiet, less animated streets.
 
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Torontovibe said:
Well, if you look at the great cities of the world (London, Paris & New York) you will see that the most of their main streets have a consistent cluster of retail. It's not little bits of retail here and there, with nothing in between. There is a reason that those cities are loved around the world and are the word's top tourism destinations. Even if you look at Toronto, the most popular destinations are streets that are highly animated and have consistent retail. (Kensington Market, The Beaches, Queen West, Yonge Street) It's obvious that most people like areas that are animated and concentrated.

I just happen to love Paris and London, so it's no surprise that I prefer that kind of urbanity. I think we can learn a lot about creating great public spaces and animated streets by looking to Europe. Every time I'm in London or Paris, I'm blown away by how wonderfully those cities are designed and how much people seem to enjoy them. Those are the models I look to when thinking about how to make Toronto a great city. Of course, I'm not saying we should copy any city, but we should take the best of what they offer and make it our own.
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I disagree ...

Maybe I'm reaching but many of the "main streets" in London are similar in this regard i.e. they are on and off ... if this didn't seem the case to you I don't think you explored the street enough ... "Bloor" is extremely long, the stretch from Church -> Dufferin (and further west) is full of retail the entire way through.

As a tourist, you are not likely to venture far enough on the so called "main" streets to see this ...


Having said that, I agree with you : ) i.e. this part of Bloor should have retail, fronting the park of course. But my objective isn't to create a continous stretch of retail.


To be fair though, you really are in walking distance to great retail (namely Bloor West Village / Roncesvalles) ...
 
I agree with RiverCity1 that we really do not need retail on every street and actually think that the biggest problem is that almost all retail spaces on the main floors of larger new buildings are FAR too small. (That in the Spire is a good- or bad - example.) These small spaces lend themselves well to dry-cleaners, small convenience stores or, as we see on King East, mini-car dealerships. We need much more variety and probably larger spaces. Animation and interst come from a variety of shops, restaurants and bars but as we see in the building just east of the Don River on Queen there is a great deal of resistance from condo owners to having a restaurant/bar (especially with a patio) immediately below their windows. The Real Jerk has not (yet anyway) got an alcohol permit and has thus not re-opened.
 
Retail isn't the only way to activate a street. What we want on a major street like parliament is activation, not necessarily retail, although retail does serve this purpose. Other uses that can activate the street would be a lobby (res or commercial), townhouses, public squares and/or parks. All of these would be acceptable on parliament. The only use that in my opinion can legitimately get away without street activation is something institutional - museum, higher education, courthouse, police station. For a data processing centre, the only way to activate the frontage would be to have some sort of higher order public square or promenade or RETAIL. There is NO excuse for not building retail here, for two reasons; the activation mentioned above AND the fact that retail on parliament is valuable (or will be) and will make more profit for the project.

This is a truly disappointing outcome...
 
According to today's issue of the Bulletin newspaper (http://thebulletin.ca but new articles not online yet) the construction of this project has now been slowed due to the unexpected discovery of a 625,000 gallon brick coal-tar tank under the ground.

This was ruptured in March and caused "a minor release of noxious fumes" which I have most definitely noticed over the past month or so, an oily/chemically smell that spreads around the neighbourhood depending on wind, sometimes causing me to have to close my windows, and I'm several blocks away. Apparently, however, this is all "non-toxic" and within safe levels. Enjoy.

There will now be additional soil remediation over the coming months as dumptrucks remove the contaminated soil.
 
Razz said:
It was a land swap. The Province wanted to buy the old Porsche building to begin assembling the First Parliament Site. The owner of the building was Dr. Sylvester Chuang, a pediatrician at St. Michael's hospital I believe. He and the Province agreed to swap his land for the site opposite on the north-west corner of Front and Parliament, as well as the TTC turnaround parcel to the north of that on the south-west corner of King and Parliament. The swap transaction also included the parcel of land on the south-east corner of Front and Trinity where Volvo is today. So Dr. Chaung got three valuable sites for one. Quite a deal you might say.
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Interesting. Any notes on when the Province might start with plans for the First Parliament Site?
I have some fears a change in government might produce yet another 11 Wellesley situation.
 
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