rdaner
Senior Member
I have full confidence in the handling of the Island Airport Lands seeing how organized this process has been! 
Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON
- Thread starter vistaway
- Start date
evandyk
Senior Member
I think the federal government drives the bus on the airport land.
junctionist
Senior Member
An above-ground parking garage at the water's edge is utterly inappropriate.
kotsy
Senior Member
I am aghast at the idea.
What are the chances of this whole project getting canned or changed in our favour if Doug loses the next election?
old boy
Senior Member
One can only hope. Doug is good at digging holes and having the taxpayer pay remediation.
Brands
Active Member
Toronto Accepts Province's Authority To Advance Ontario Place Redevelopment
The Government of Ontario will introduce relevant legislation later today.
storeys.com
Toronto Accepts Province's Authority To Advance Ontario Place Redevelopment
Ontario has agreed to explore relocating the publicly funded, $500M parking garage to the grounds of Exhibition Place to "improve public access to the shoreline." The agreement will see the Ontario Science Centre move to the waterfront, although the Province and the City plan to work together to maintain community science-based programming at the existing site
Northern Light
Superstar
The Star has an article out on the idea of the parking garage moving to the EX or not..............and being above ground......or not.........
www.thestar.com
From the above:
For clarity.............the above means the working estimate for underground parking is now $250,000 per space.
***
The province is apparently concerned it can't afford/justify that number.............and...:
The article finishes somewhat awkwardly by pivoting to a Guelph developer who thinks the underground parking can be delivered for less than the original estimate, but still thinks delivering it above ground is a better idea.
Province pushing for above ground garage at Ontario Place due to cost, says head of CNE
The CEO of the CNE said he was told by the province that an underground parking garage could cost $800 million.
www.thestar.com
From the above:
For clarity.............the above means the working estimate for underground parking is now $250,000 per space.
***
The province is apparently concerned it can't afford/justify that number.............and...:
The article finishes somewhat awkwardly by pivoting to a Guelph developer who thinks the underground parking can be delivered for less than the original estimate, but still thinks delivering it above ground is a better idea.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
After reading the article I took a look at Kiwi Newton and they do genuinely seem to have a relatively innovative product for structure parking and seem to be getting a tonne of contracts for it lately.
He quotes $30,000 a spot, which is on the low end today. They could probably deliver it at that cost but only as an extremely bare-bones garage. Something like this which they delivered at one of the old IBM buildings up on Steeles in Markham recently:
I doubt the province will opt for something that barebones, nor do I think it's particularly desirable.
More likely you are looking at something more like the garage they did for Humber College, which at 1,000 spaces was fairly large.. The Ontario Place garage would be almost triple the size though:
You can see the solar panels they were discussing in the article. Overall I don't find it terribly unattractive.
He quotes $30,000 a spot, which is on the low end today. They could probably deliver it at that cost but only as an extremely bare-bones garage. Something like this which they delivered at one of the old IBM buildings up on Steeles in Markham recently:
I doubt the province will opt for something that barebones, nor do I think it's particularly desirable.
More likely you are looking at something more like the garage they did for Humber College, which at 1,000 spaces was fairly large.. The Ontario Place garage would be almost triple the size though:
You can see the solar panels they were discussing in the article. Overall I don't find it terribly unattractive.
DavidCapizzano
Senior Member
The one they did in downtown Guelph looks alright - still not very desirable here though
Northern Light
Superstar
If one must go above grade with parking (debatable), that is a good effort, lets be honest, its better than a lot of the podiums we see here at UT, and definitely gives off the early 20thC industrial vibe.
The corner bit in 'modern' grey panels really detracts from the overall aesthetic. I assume they wanted it to look like old school metal sheathing but boy is that a miss.
Would have been good to see some at-grade retail there too.
****
While that scale isn't bad, again, for such a thing...........its certainly large enough to block Lake views from much of Exhibition Place if built in similar proportion. The kicker here, the Guelph garage is 'only' 496 spaces......so the garage at the EX/OP would be more than 5x the size!
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
This is one of those announcements where I /upvote with one eye open... >.<Toronto Accepts Province's Authority To Advance Ontario Place Redevelopment
The Government of Ontario will introduce relevant legislation later today.
Toronto Accepts Province's Authority To Advance Ontario Place Redevelopment
Ontario has agreed to explore relocating the publicly funded, $500M parking garage to the grounds of Exhibition Place to "improve public access to the shoreline." The agreement will see the Ontario Science Centre move to the waterfront, although the Province and the City plan to work together to maintain community science-based programming at the existing site
reinventingthewheel
Active Member
Looks better on the south side.
I think an above ground parking structure of 5x that size is unacceptable anywhere downtown.
I also don’t follow why the province would foot the whole bill for this, no contribution from Therme?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I don't think it's a fatal error to do an above grade garage, certainly worse than a below-grade structure too though. The area isn't exactly a pinnacle of urbanism and these large exhibition / events grounds are pretty typical to have very large development scales, including large structure parking garages, globally. We aren't dropping a 2,700 space garage in the middle of Kensington Market here. A siting north of Lakeshore on the existing exhibition ground is a massive surface lot which is usually used as surface parking for guests even when the Ex is underway.
The Exhibition surface lot on the north side of Lakeshore does sit on a berm which appears to be about 5 metres tall. Perhaps they could do two levels underground there without the expensive waterproofing to mitigate the size of it, with a smaller above-grade component.
As to why the Province signed on to the garage - Likely because it will act as a shared facility for all leasees on Ontario Place. It only makes sense for the landlord to provide it as a part of the lease.
We don't know the lease terms the province has made with Therme, Live Nation, etc. - but I assume there is some level of elevated rent payment because the province is providing the parking facility.
Northern Light
Superstar
The latest challenge to the province's Ontario Place legislation (not the development scheme itself, but the move to exempt the site from virtually all forms of review or challenge) has been dismissed.
www.thestar.com
From the above:
Irrespective of one's take on the details of the OP plans.......I think their lawyer does proffer a useful point:
Removing any of the sensationalist type stuff.......the fair question is how far should the government be allowed to go in exempting itself from scrutiny or penalty when there is no emergent reason for same (say a pandemic)?
*****
I note w/some bemusement..........unless there's a very interesting coincidence afoot, the lawyer for Ontario Place Protectors seems to be the same fellow who represented the Bayview residents group fighting against the transitional housing
at Willowdale/Cummer.
Court dismisses challenge to Ford government’s Ontario Place revamp
The Ontario Superior Court dismissed a legal challenge by Ontario Place Protectors over the Rebuilding Ontario Place Act.
www.thestar.com
From the above:
Irrespective of one's take on the details of the OP plans.......I think their lawyer does proffer a useful point:
Removing any of the sensationalist type stuff.......the fair question is how far should the government be allowed to go in exempting itself from scrutiny or penalty when there is no emergent reason for same (say a pandemic)?
*****
I note w/some bemusement..........unless there's a very interesting coincidence afoot, the lawyer for Ontario Place Protectors seems to be the same fellow who represented the Bayview residents group fighting against the transitional housing
at Willowdale/Cummer.
generalcanada
Senior Member
Decision here: https://ontarioplaceprotectors.com/...ontario_place_protectors_v._hmk_judgment_.pdfThe latest challenge to the province's Ontario Place legislation (not the development scheme itself, but the move to exempt the site from virtually all forms of review or challenge) has been dismissed.
Court dismisses challenge to Ford government’s Ontario Place revamp
The Ontario Superior Court dismissed a legal challenge by Ontario Place Protectors over the Rebuilding Ontario Place Act.
From the above:
View attachment 583698
Irrespective of one's take on the details of the OP plans.......I think their lawyer does proffer a useful point:
View attachment 583703
Removing any of the sensationalist type stuff.......the fair question is how far should the government be allowed to go in exempting itself from scrutiny or penalty when there is no emergent reason for same (say a pandemic)?
*****
I note w/some bemusement..........unless there's a very interesting coincidence afoot, the lawyer for Ontario Place Protectors seems to be the same fellow who represented the Bayview residents group fighting against the transitional housing
at Willowdale/Cummer.
read through it, Its not the clearest of wins for the government.
the very least is that apperently that the applicant lacks standing.
Public trust argument is not a thing apperrently
While the judge said the entire act doesnt go against the constitution, she doesnt rule out that any action prohibited by the act couldnt actually be raised
Theoretically saying that someone could resubmit asking for remedies against the environmental act or heritage act
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