Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[superelevation]

That would not stop Metrolinx from expropriating it - as they want to do with the First Parliament site at Front @ Parliament.

Its funny how there was little talk about First Parliament until the land (car dealerships in large part) was needed for a transit project by a Conservative Government. I am sure if they weren't talking about all the TOD etc. the story would be that "Government wastes prime transit accessible land in housing crisis"

Why won't the Province of Ontario do something special for Ontario's first parliament site? Can it be more than another non-descript parkette, station entrance, and community centre/library? Can one or more of those buildings be an architectural replica of the first parliament?

Why? We need transit desperately and we need housing, I just don't think this should be our number 1 priority especially heading out of Covid, given how little anyone seems to have heard of it until it suddenly became important . . .

I hear you and I almost always agree with the inauthentic argument, but Toronto has a monoculture of steel and glass towers. 20,000 buildings have been demolished in the name of progress in the old city. A period piece would enhance the Distillery District as a destination. I'm sure it could have the usual coterie of towers behind it. I'm thinking of the Grange AGO here. One period building with a pretty square in front of it would be a nice terminus to the Esplanade. It could be the library or serve some other civic purpose and have an archival interpretive section showcasing artifacts and York's early history. Towers and vertical sprawl will further dominate the area. One architectural gesture wouldn't hurt. Our historic precincts are so small. We're building too many future St. Jamestowns.

This isn't a terrible idea, but we also do need way more TOD

I disagree. We have drawings showing what they looked like. They had a modest but attractive design. The lack of public memory is the result of a failure to commemorate the history of the site. That shouldn't be used as a justification not to rebuild the buildings. They would make for a great cultural centre/museum, including a library.

Sure, but it shouldn't be at the expense of a transit line we have needed for half a century coming any

This is absurd.

Why should they have to guarantee this when not even the government can?

I give them credit for proposing an alternate solution...one that seems well thought out and well within the realm of possibility.

Adding a new underground station and lots of tunnel, does not seem likely in the least. . . .

Right. The 60s urban sprawl in Leslieville. Completely unacceptable.

Unless you live on Eglinton West, Scarborough, Markham, Richmond Hill, etc.

Theres a rail corridor older than Canada here, theres gonna be trains. EG West should be elevated, but a bad project there doesn't make this a bad project

The irony being that the government is planning to tunnel deep in the distant suburbs lol, even go so far as to tunnel to extemities below rivers. No posts about that eh.

Anyway this Munro alignment is dang near identical to the two iterations of the 1985 "DRL", which in itself was already an affordable subway.

Why was it affordable?

 

[DSC]

Its funny how there was little talk about First Parliament until the land (car dealerships in large part) was needed for a transit project by a Conservative Government. I am sure if they weren't talking about all the TOD etc. the story would be that "Government wastes prime transit accessible land in housing crisis"

There was a HUGE amount of discussion about the First Parliament site, you have clearly not been paying attention. It started about 20 years ago when local citizen groups started to lobby to get the site back in to public ownership. The Ontario Heritage Trust bought the 25% of the site they own in 2003 and the City managed to swap land they owned on the east side of Parliament Street (where the "Server Building" is now) with the private owner of the other 75% in 2012. Then there were archaeological investigations and many workshops and consultations regarding the (massive) contamination of the site etc etc. Finally the City started to develop a Heritage Interpretation Strategy (with several public meetings and advisory groups) and was in the final stages of announcing a Master Plan (also based on several, well attended, public meetings) in early 2020 - just as public meetings became difficult and Metrolinx was sniffing around. Not sure if you were at the virtual meeting on Thursday night but there was lots of support there for housing on the site (in addition to a new District Library and open space): I think there was no mention of leaving the site without some buildings. Just because YOU were not aware of or involved in this extensive public dialogue over the past 20 years does not mean it was not happening and being publicly discussed - on many platforms, including UT. Get your facts straight!

 

[allengeorge]

I like the city’s vision for the park. I think it’s aiming too low with the midrise building(s).

 

[smallspy]

With automation, they could also store trains on sidings or at elevated terminus stations without having to worry about a driver getting home. I don't know if OL has any sidings planned though. SkyTrain trains are often stored on sidings or tail tracks.

Those trains don't fix or clean themselves....

But yes, they could absolutely store trains in tail tracks. Like the TTC already does today. And there's no indication that they won't do that with the Ontario Line once it is running.

Keep in mind though that those are a very, very, very small proportion of the total trains required for service. For instance, 4 trains are stored every night at Finch Station. Meanwhile, it sees 18 departures in the first hour of service, ramping up to 28/hour at the height of the rush. (Or at least, it did prior to COVID.) There will still be quite a bit of deadheading needed to build up service for the day.

Dan

 

[DSC]

I like the city’s vision for the park. I think it’s aiming too low with the midrise building(s).

The City plans were made before this area became a possible/probably transit hub. I think we will see the City plans moving to greater height - and an insistence on a high % of affordable units.

 

[syn]

Theres a rail corridor older than Canada here, theres gonna be trains. EG West should be elevated, but a bad project there doesn't make this a bad project

So?

There are rail corridors in Richmond Hill, Markham, Scarborough, etc.

Why aren't we using those for affordable above-ground transit expansion?

 

[ARG1]

So?

There's rail corridors in Richmond Hill, Markham, Scarborough, etc.

Why aren't we using those for affordable above-ground transit expansion?

We're using the one in Richmond Hill for the Yonge Extension, using the one in Scarborough is physically challenging without creating a separate line *cough cough*, and idk what you're talking about in Markham.

 

[gibsonm]

Its funny how there was little talk about First Parliament until the land (car dealerships in large part) was needed for a transit project by a Conservative Government. I am sure if they weren't talking about all the TOD etc. the story would be that "Government wastes prime transit accessible land in housing crisis"


Why? We need transit desperately and we need housing, I just don't think this should be our number 1 priority especially heading out of Covid, given how little anyone seems to have heard of it until it suddenly became important . . .


This isn't a terrible idea, but we also do need way more TOD


Sure, but it shouldn't be at the expense of a transit line we have needed for half a century coming any


Adding a new underground station and lots of tunnel, does not seem likely in the least. . . .


Theres a rail corridor older than Canada here, theres gonna be trains. EG West should be elevated, but a bad project there doesn't make this a bad project


Why was it affordable?

Why are having decent architecture and public spaces that compliment the historic character and scale of the area and building a subway mutually exclusive? Keeping some of the architecture that's going to house the subway entrance and library/community centre in keeping with that important heritage isn't difficult or expensive. It's about making choices in design and materials. Don't worry, the developers will get their point towers and cheap construction with cramped studio condos. Lots more CityPlace Redux coming.

 

[afransen]

So?

There's rail corridors in Richmond Hill, Markham, Scarborough, etc.

Why aren't we using those for affordable above-ground transit expansion?

"We deserve subways" needs to die.

 

[tsm1072]

So?

There are rail corridors in Richmond Hill, Markham, Scarborough, etc.

Why aren't we using those for affordable above-ground transit expansion?

We are, GO expansion aims to use some of those corridors to provide frequent transit service.

 

[syn]

We are, GO expansion aims to use some of those corridors to provide frequent transit service.

Sorry, to be clear I was referring specifically to TTC subway expansion.

 

[tsm1072]

Sorry, to be clear I was referring specifically to TTC subway expansion.

By the time a lot of the projects are complete, whether something is TTC, GO, YRT, Miway, etc. will be irrelevant. We will have fare integration (I'm willing to bet money on that), and we can look at these lines as the singular transit network it will be. Whether it is a frequent GO train or frequent TTC train using the ROW doesn't matter, we will be using it to provide frequent convenient transit.

With the updated designs of the DRL and Young North Extension, Metrolinx has made it clear that they will use existing ROW whenever it makes economic sense.

 

[syn]

By the time a lot of the projects are complete, whether something is TTC, GO, YRT, Miway, etc. will be irrelevant. We will have fare integration (I'm willing to bet money on that), and we can look at these lines as the singular transit network it will be. Whether it is a frequent GO train or frequent TTC train using the ROW doesn't matter, we will be using it to provide frequent convenient transit.

Then why is the SSE necessary at all? It saves a minimal amount of commute time and adds little benefit to local commutes.

Same for the YNSE - why not just provided enhanced GO service?

With the updated designs of the DRL and Young North Extension, Metrolinx has made it clear that they will use existing ROW whenever it makes economic sense.

I'd argue the YNSE is a fairly poor example. It's almost entirely underground.

The SSE and EWLRT make it clear their plans are based on political and not practical considerations.

I'd also say the OL is not a wise use of funds because it's a lower capacity line than originally planned (where maximum capacity is needed) and doesn't go all the way to Don Mills.

 

[KhalilHeron]

Then why is the SSE necessary at all? It saves a minimal amount of commute time and adds little benefit to local commutes.

Same for the YNSE - why not just provided enhanced GO service?

... because there aren't preexisting rail corridors to STC or york U/ Vaughan metro centre ... Go and the subway can coexist... using preexisting rail corridors for the subway can make a lot of sense in a lot of different places, but it shouldn't have so much overlap that the subway just serves as a local service for GO

 

[ARG1]

Then why is the SSE necessary at all? It saves a minimal amount of commute time and adds little benefit to local commutes.

Same for the YNSE - why not just provided enhanced GO service?



I'd argue the YNSE is a fairly poor example. It's almost entirely underground.

The SSE and EWLRT make it clear their plans are based on political and not practical considerations.

I'd also say the OL is not a wise use of funds because it's a lower capacity line than originally planned (where maximum capacity is needed) and doesn't go all the way to Don Mills.

Providing decent GO service on the Richmond Hill line would genuinely cost more money than the Yonge North extension, even then whether or not it would be more valuable than the subway is seriously up in the air.