narduch
Senior Member
Exhibition GO station doesn't serve Ontario Place all that well though. Its a bit of a hike.
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s
- Thread starter JasonParis
- Start date
WislaHD
Superstar
This really isn't that concerning to me.
It would be closer to Liberty Village and BMO Field, two high-use locations.
My thinking is if you were planning on a day trip to Ontario Place anyway, then you already committed to significant walking. Perhaps a ring-streetcar alignment can serve Ontario Place?
narduch
Senior Member
I don't mind the location. It has many pluses.
I just don't think it solves the Ontario Place transit accessibility issues 100%.
Kitsune
Senior Member
There really is no way to ring a streetcar to ontario place because all the streets that could be used are dedicated to the race track or cross the race track.
By race track do you mean Lake Shore used for the Indy? Is that really more important than transit?
Allandale25
Senior Member
Toronto staff report up. Staff have Ontario Line questions at the end of the report.
muller877
Senior Member
The Toronto Star had Yes vs No articles in the Opinion section this morning. Jan de Silva (sp?) from the Board of Trade suggested that this will be a single bore tunnel and an Exhibition GO stop. Not sure if she has any inside knowledge but I wouldn't bet against it.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
If this entire line can't be up and running by 2027 then it will have NOTHING to do with planning or construction and EVERYTHING to do with Toronto politics. Vancouver's 13 station, 17 km Millenium Line was announced and completely built within 28 months. From Clark's announcement, shovels were in the ground within 8 months and it came in $50 million under budget. Yes it is elevated but so will much of the OL line will be and the ENTIRE route was under construction at the same time. None of this Toronto crap where they build one part and then when it's done they move onto the next section. One of the advantages of PPP is that they don't do things on government time...……...they sooner they get building, the sooner they get paid and the amount they get paid is contractual regardless of whether it takes them longer to do it or not.
With a PPP the government sets all the parameters and then the private companies start building with very heavy fines if they don't bring it in on time and they assume 100% of any cost over-runs. Unlike a government, there are real financial consequences if they don't get it in on-time and o-budget, none of this "escalated dollars' crap. PPP also holds the governments foot to the fire as the penalties for the next government trying to cancel or shorten it not only costs them massive one time penalties but more importantly on-going ones for all the money they were projected to make over the course of the project......…….the government has to pay for the whole damn line even if it doesn't get built so needless to say, they get built.
With a PPP the government sets all the parameters and then the private companies start building with very heavy fines if they don't bring it in on time and they assume 100% of any cost over-runs. Unlike a government, there are real financial consequences if they don't get it in on-time and o-budget, none of this "escalated dollars' crap. PPP also holds the governments foot to the fire as the penalties for the next government trying to cancel or shorten it not only costs them massive one time penalties but more importantly on-going ones for all the money they were projected to make over the course of the project......…….the government has to pay for the whole damn line even if it doesn't get built so needless to say, they get built.
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hw621
Senior Member
^Crosstown is being built P3? It will take them over 6 years to build (not including the boring time), and they managed to scoop in additional 257 million?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Look at the CL which is a TRUE PPP and not just a line with the private sector building it. On-time and on-budget because they were responsible for any cost overruns and SEVERE penalties if it came in late. If Toronto had a good track record of building infrastructure then perhaps a PPP wouldn't be needed but it has an awful record of building anything and when it does it's always delayed and more expensive than anticipated.
Think of condos vs social housing. Condos are built by private companies with mega-bucks on the line which is why they can get built incredibly fast and on-budget as opposed to social housing which always costs more and takes forever.
Think of condos vs social housing. Condos are built by private companies with mega-bucks on the line which is why they can get built incredibly fast and on-budget as opposed to social housing which always costs more and takes forever.
rbt
Senior Member
Yes, the bulk of it (stations, signals, track, etc.) is a $9.1B (inflated) Design, Build, Finance, Maintain (30 year IIRC) contract; with TTC handling Operations.
Eglinton Crosstown LRT
The Eglinton Crosstown LRT is part of Metrolinx's regional transportation plan, The Big Move, and is one of the first large-scale transit projects for the Toronto area. The LRT will provide fast, reliable and comfortable transit along Eglinton Avenue and will help to reduce congestion, offer...
www.infrastructureontario.ca
Other much smaller contracts were made for TBMs, tunnel liners, boring (2 contracts), LRV order (Bombardier, which was adjusted), and preparatory works such as utility moves.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
I started reading both of those, immediately realized neither of them has a clue. And the poll results say, more than anything: "You're vote is indicative of why you read this in the first place".
It all depends on the contract.
http://www.pppcouncil.ca/web/Knowle...spx?hkey=2c6597c6-53bf-4a9d-adf0-86e108d003bb
Kyle Campbell
Active Member
To be honest though, the consortium actually agreed to 2019 first. The new at the time mayor Watson who inherited the project then leaned heavily to get it done early in time for Canada 2017, but they said no and reluctantly agreed to 2018. If the confed line opens Mayish it would actually match the original timeline
WislaHD
Superstar
Some interesting things in there.
"On April 10, 2019, and in the April 11, 2019 release of the 2019 Ontario Budget, the Province outlined a new transit proposal that included four priorities for the Province, consistent with the letter received by the City on March 22nd, 2019."
I take this to mean that the City knew about the Province's plans from March 22nd, 2019.
Relief Line Cost estimates:
- City's Relief Line cost: $6.8 B (Class 5, YOE$)
- Province's Ontario Line cost: $10.9 B
- The City is recommending $3.151 billion of Toronto's PTIF2 allocation be put towards the Relief Line South project as currently scoped in EX4.1. This Supplementary Report recommends that the City consider redirecting the $3.151 billion in PTIF2 dollars to the proposed "Ontario Line", subject to the outcome of further analysis on the commercial and technical merits of the project and its effect on the overall transit network, to the satisfaction of City Council.
That means $7.749 billion (71.1%) needs to be committed from a combination of:
- Municipally raised money
- The $11.2 b that the Province has committed to Toronto transit expansion in their 2019 budget
- New Federal commitments that arise from the 2019 election
- Third party funding, through either the Infrastructure Bank, or private developer money at stations (I am sure Doug will be asking Infrastructure Ontario to investigate this, even if it becomes a fool's errand)
I laughed out loud at question #34. "What geotechnical analysis has been undertaken, particularly in the areas north and west of the current Relief Line South PDE work?"; I think we know the answer to that. ?