Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

hw621 said:
Setting the stage for mess
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180519
 
I doubt the new technology will be SkyTrain/ART but it does have some logistical advantages as the control/maintenance.garage is already built and would simply need to be expanded. SkyTrain also offers the advantages of being able to take tight corners, high in/declines, and requires fewer and smaller support structures than elevated subway and yet doesn't have the visual pollution and maintenance problems of elevated LRT with catenary.
 
ssiguy2 said:
I doubt the new technology will be SkyTrain/ART but it does have some logistical advantages as the control/maintenance.garage is already built and would simply need to be expanded. SkyTrain also offers the advantages of being able to take tight corners, high in/declines, and requires fewer and smaller support structures than elevated subway and yet doesn't have the visual pollution and maintenance problems of elevated LRT with catenary.
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I think not necessarily ART but something of the same modern spec. Just with longer trains to accommodate the passengers, and complete driverless trains that can run super close together. So similar to REM but not overhead wires, probably 3rd rail, due to the cost savings probably coming from using single-bore tunnels that these more narrow trains can squeeze into, and lightweight aluminum cars that can be elevated on cheaper structures.
 
It definitely won't be standard 3rd rail as Ford has clearly stated that it will be a new technology and not the stuff Toronto currently uses which, includes ART, although maybe he meant modern ART MK3 trains but I doubt it. His minister also said that it will not be monorail. So if it's not LRT, subway, ART, monorail, or diesel {all of which are currently being used in Toronto} then the only thing I can see would be hydrogen EMU. He said that they would be full subway-sized stations so {thankfully} that rules out any form of PRT,GRT, or gondola

I know I harp on hydrogen but I don't know of any other technology besides the ones I mention.
 
Catenary EMUs. Calling it now. Small chance it's Hydrail so they can show how modern they are. But the tech is all but irrelevant.

What is important is any mergers or mandates that arise. This is probably going to be their rebranding of GO RER with some integration with the TTC subway network.

With any luck, maybe it can be an upgrade of the subway network under the guise of rebranding. I've always thought that somebody really smart could spend a few billion upgrading the subway network and get a tremendous amount of political return. Imagine, they spent on SOGR, ATC/ATO and PEDs while rebranding the subway network, they could win some 416 ridings out of that. All that would be far more tangible to voters than a DRL a decade from now or GO RER which would slowly ramp up over 5-10 years.
 
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Announcement tomorrow:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1115606166527197184

From this Star article (key portions relevant to this thread below):

Sources say Ford’s government will publicly reveal the plan Wednesday, on the eve of the provincial budget. Despite pressure on Tory to attend, the sources say, he has declined. The announcement may now happen outside Toronto.


Tory’s chief of staff, Luke Robertson, is expected to be briefed by officials in Ford’s office Tuesday evening, less than a day before the closely held details will be made public, including new technology Ford wants on the relief subway line and changes to the Scarborough subway extension.

Tory’s office felt discussions were going well, sources said, until he was blindsided with a letter from the province around 9 a.m. March 25 — one hour before he was scheduled to meet with Ford at Queen’s Park — requesting major changes to four ongoing transit projects.


The mystery includes what new technology Ford wants for the relief line, a top TTC priority aimed at relieving chronic overcrowding. Ford, himself, is personally excited about the new technology, raving to associates about its merits.

A senior government official stressed that the relief line would be built underground — even with the “new technology” that’s being proposed.

In some media interviews and during question period in the legislature Ford’s enthusiasm has tipped the government’s hand about an almost $30-billion announcement that is a cornerstone of Thursday’s budget.

“It’s about technology,” the premier said two weeks ago. “We are going to build the greatest downtown relief line. As a matter of fact, when they showed me the plan my jaw dropped,” said Ford, who described the new plan as “thinking outside the box” and “less expensive, faster and better” transit technology.

The specifics of the plan are a closely guarded secret, with the Ford government even withholding details from senior city and TTC leadership.

A clue to what the province has in mind could lie with a report authored by Michael Schabas, a consultant now serving as a senior rail expert at Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency.

In 2013, Schabas wrote a report urging Metrolinx to adopt a technology he referred to as “light metro” or “automated light rapid transit” for Toronto lines. The trains would resemble TTC subways in some ways but would be lighter and have smaller wheels. Schabas described them as similar to those on Vancouver’s SkyTrain.

He wrote that the light metro vehicles could run on elevated tracks instead of in tunnels and would provide rapid reliable service that would be cheaper to build than traditional subways. If, like the SkyTrain, they could be operated without a driver, they would also be less expensive to run.

Schabas argued the technology could be deployed in Scarborough to serve as a cheaper alternative to plans to extend the Line 2 subway.

At city council last month, TTC CEO Rick Leary warned against employing train technology for the relief line that isn’t compatible with the existing subway system. The TTC’s existing system allows the agency to run its fleet on different lines interchangeably, either to get the vehicles to maintenance yards or adjust service.

“It’s very important to be able to move trains from one line to another like we do today from Line 1 to Line 2,” he said.

Leary noted that, according to the city’s existing plan, the TTC would store trains operating on the relief line at the agency’s Greenwood Yard, which is designed for the current fleet. Running different types of trains for the relief line would require building a new yard, which would be costly and likely pose significant logistical challenges.
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ssiguy2 said:
It definitely won't be standard 3rd rail as Ford has clearly stated that it will be a new technology and not the stuff Toronto currently uses which, includes ART, although maybe he meant modern ART MK3 trains but I doubt it. His minister also said that it will not be monorail. So if it's not LRT, subway, ART, monorail, or diesel {all of which are currently being used in Toronto} then the only thing I can see would be hydrogen EMU. He said that they would be full subway-sized stations so {thankfully} that rules out any form of PRT,GRT, or gondola

I know I harp on hydrogen but I don't know of any other technology besides the ones I mention.
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ART is still 3rd rail for power collection. I meant something like the Canada Line in Vancouver but much longer trains.

3rd rail but not traditional subway tech.
 
salsa said:
This smells like the SRT ICTS debacle all over again.
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Mmmm...I think there's going to be a massive factor beyond what tech is used. And modern metros are a generation or more ahead of the ICTS, albeit as others have written, the SRT lends itself to being compatible in many ways to adopting it. Toss the LIM, and adjust your TRIM.
 
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