Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[Northern Light]

Lots of info out today in the big transit report to Executive Ctte.

Agenda Item History - 2019.EX4.1

First bits of interest to me, on this project here:

The Relief Line is planned to operate as a separate subway line, but will be integrated with the existing subway. The trains, stations, and other infrastructure will be designed to the latest subway standards permitting a high-capacity service to meet the projected passenger demand over the next 30 years at minimum. Provision is being made for automatic train operation, platform edge doors, and longer trains to allow the most flexibility for future increases in ridership demand. The line will be entirely tunnelled, and will be isolated from the weather-related delays that can affect service on Lines 1, 2, and 3. There will be convenient interchange connections for passengers at Pape, Queen, and Osgoode subway stations, and at the proposed Gerrard-Carlaw and East Harbour SmartTrack stations. A separate, short tunnel will allow Relief Line trains to be driven to the TTC's existing Greenwood Yard for necessary maintenance and repairs, thus allowing efficient use of existing subway system resources. For maximum service resilience and redundancy, the connection to the wider subway system would allow for trains from Line 1 or Line 2 to be operated on the Relief Line, if necessary.

Note the separate tunnel, which I had not recalled being a part of the project, I thought the wye track was to serve as the connection to Greenwood via Line 2, apparently not so.

 

[raptor]

Lots of info out today in the big transit report to Executive Ctte.

Agenda Item History - 2019.EX4.1

First bits of interest to me, on this project here:

The Relief Line is planned to operate as a separate subway line, but will be integrated with the existing subway. The trains, stations, and other infrastructure will be designed to the latest subway standards permitting a high-capacity service to meet the projected passenger demand over the next 30 years at minimum. Provision is being made for automatic train operation, platform edge doors, and longer trains to allow the most flexibility for future increases in ridership demand. The line will be entirely tunnelled, and will be isolated from the weather-related delays that can affect service on Lines 1, 2, and 3. There will be convenient interchange connections for passengers at Pape, Queen, and Osgoode subway stations, and at the proposed Gerrard-Carlaw and East Harbour SmartTrack stations. A separate, short tunnel will allow Relief Line trains to be driven to the TTC's existing Greenwood Yard for necessary maintenance and repairs, thus allowing efficient use of existing subway system resources. For maximum service resilience and redundancy, the connection to the wider subway system would allow for trains from Line 1 or Line 2 to be operated on the Relief Line, if necessary.

Note the separate tunnel, which I had not recalled being a part of the project, I thought the wye track was to serve as the connection to Greenwood via Line 2, apparently not so.

I'm pretty sure this separate tunnel is referring to the wye track. However, this whole report is really moot as we await hearing what the provincial government has to offer.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Ontario can buy and run Alstrom trains all it wants without disturbing the DRL plan. It's called GO Transit and they run on technology older than Toronto's subway cars.

 

[micheal_can]

Lots of info out today in the big transit report to Executive Ctte.

Agenda Item History - 2019.EX4.1

First bits of interest to me, on this project here:

The Relief Line is planned to operate as a separate subway line, but will be integrated with the existing subway. The trains, stations, and other infrastructure will be designed to the latest subway standards permitting a high-capacity service to meet the projected passenger demand over the next 30 years at minimum. Provision is being made for automatic train operation, platform edge doors, and longer trains to allow the most flexibility for future increases in ridership demand. The line will be entirely tunnelled, and will be isolated from the weather-related delays that can affect service on Lines 1, 2, and 3. There will be convenient interchange connections for passengers at Pape, Queen, and Osgoode subway stations, and at the proposed Gerrard-Carlaw and East Harbour SmartTrack stations. A separate, short tunnel will allow Relief Line trains to be driven to the TTC's existing Greenwood Yard for necessary maintenance and repairs, thus allowing efficient use of existing subway system resources. For maximum service resilience and redundancy, the connection to the wider subway system would allow for trains from Line 1 or Line 2 to be operated on the Relief Line, if necessary.

Note the separate tunnel, which I had not recalled being a part of the project, I thought the wye track was to serve as the connection to Greenwood via Line 2, apparently not so.

The first piece of information that is good. This means it will use existing technology used for Lines 1 and 2.

 

[p_xavier]

The first piece of information that is good. This means it will use existing technology used for Lines 1 and 2.

That would mean the city was planning it with current technology. That might be thrown out of the window soon.

 

[robmausser]

Why did LIM work well in other places but not Toronto?

Because it was/is the only/majority of their system. That is why TTC gauge works only in Toronto.

New Yorks airport line to JFK, which is the same tech seems to work fine as a different technology than the rest of their system.

The Rockets are modern and not some 40 year old design. They are based on the Movia, which were started in 2001. Sounds pretty modern.

The Skytrain is a system that is using ancient technolgy, but, they stick with it, except when the governments decide to mess with it - Canada Line. Their most recent extension, the Evergreen Extension is with the LIM tech. The future UBC will use it.

What? The subway tech is much older than the LIM/Skytrain tech. The LIM/Skytrain system was the first fully completely automated computer controlled transit system in the world. Only now are other systems updating to such a revolutionary design.

If you are talking about the rolling stock, then you are wrong again. Skytrain is updating to these new modern trains

 

[robmausser]

The first piece of information that is good. This means it will use existing technology used for Lines 1 and 2.

This is the cities report. All of this will be meaningless after the provincial subway upload.

 

[micheal_can]

New Yorks airport line to JFK, which is the same tech seems to work fine as a different technology than the rest of their system.



What? The subway tech is much older than the LIM/Skytrain tech. The LIM/Skytrain system was the first fully completely automated computer controlled transit system in the world. Only now are other systems updating to such a revolutionary design.

If you are talking about the rolling stock, then you are wrong again. Skytrain is updating to these new modern trains

Are they still using the G series? That is akin to what you are arguing with the Mark III.

LIM is not compatible with Lines 1, 2 or 4. TR are. The next gen will be too. Al I am saying is that in a city that really does not have much LIM, LIM should not be the tech chosen.

 

[micheal_can]

Definetly off base here, the LIM tech is newer than traditional traction motors. It just doesn't work well in snow and ice.

Lots of subways in Asia (Japan especially) use it. But they have different climates, same with Vancouver of course.

So, unless we decide that the line will only be underground, we should not use LIM.

 

[BurlOak]

Are they still using the G series? That is akin to what you are arguing with the Mark III.

LIM is not compatible with Lines 1, 2 or 4. TR are. The next gen will be too. Al I am saying is that in a city that really does not have much LIM, LIM should not be the tech chosen.

We have Zero LRT - that didn't stop them from choosing that technology.
5 and 10 years ago, we could have gone with all LIM and no LRT (aside from the existing subway). That time has past.

 

[Rainforest]

So, unless we decide that the line will only be underground, we should not use LIM.

I'd say, even if the line is fully underground we still don't need to use LIM.

 

[micheal_can]

I'd say, even if the line is fully underground we still don't need to use LIM.

I agree, but I wanted to lay it out for others to see that it is not a good option.

 

[44 North]

I'd say, even if the line is fully underground we still don't need to use LIM.

That's my view. I stand alone with the assumption, and not certain if it's feasible, but in a nutshell it would be to put out a tender to rip out the LIM infrastructure, replace with conventional 3rd rail, and have an open bid for rolling stock that roughly fits the Innovia Mk1 dimensions. Maybe the winner could be a narrow Movia variant not unlike the TR, maybe Metropolis, maybe Inspiro, or something else. But surely our only options couldn't have been just two: buy new LIM capable vehicles from a single supplier (Bombardier), or tear down all infrastructure and rebuild for head-scratcher LFLRVs.

 

[Northern Light]

Steve Munro is out with Part 2 of his analysis of the big transit report to Exec. Ctte.

In this one he examines the Relief Line, Bloor-Yonge Expansion, and Smart Track.

Toronto’s Omnibus Transit Report: Part II

On April 9, Toronto’s Executive Committee will consider a massive set of reports on the many transit projects at various stages of design and construction in Toronto. In Part I of this series…

stevemunro.ca

 

[p_xavier]

Well sounds like we'll be able to have a legal Budget tailgate party outside of Queen's Park. Let the good times roll!

Annoucement wil be Wednesday.