Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

M II A II R II K said:
The RH Line could be elevated up to street level for easy access which would also keep it out of floods. And connect with the TTC easily before Union.
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If we're proposing crazy ideas, then what about removing the Don Valley Parkway from the Gardiner to Eglinton, then use that landscaped ROW for the Richmond Hill Line, then it can connect back to the current route at Lawrence. As for the DVP, it can go south at Eglinton rather than curve west to follow the Don Valley, and then "DVP" will replace Woodbine Ave and curve to go back on Lakeshore and connect to the Gardiner directly. One or two houses and apartment buildings may have to go, but who cares?

I'm totally kidding about this, but really though, there isn't any way to get the RH Line to be RER ready (or even 2WAD) without major investment in a new alignment.

What do you mean by elevated though?
 
What is the outlook of the DRL with the upcoming provincial election? I can't be alone in thinking that the Yonge extension to Richmond Hill will supersede the DRL in party platforms.
 
mjl08 said:
What is the outlook of the DRL with the upcoming provincial election? I can't be alone in thinking that the Yonge extension to Richmond Hill will supersede the DRL in party platforms.
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I thought that already was the case the the YNSE has more power than the Relief Line South (and North). YNSE will be promised, but more planning money for the Relief Line may be promised and construction funding will likely not.
 
Can someone please explain the fascination with making DRL long an RER line instead of a proper subway? We've already discussed before numerous times that running tracks in the don valley is a bad idea because of floodplain reasons, as well as the fact that the line is not direct and would take significantly longer than the Yonge line if the current alignment is not adjusted. Also, RL long is supposed to be a project that prevents overcapacity on the city's subway lines (like what we see on the Yonge line currently) from ever happening again. If the line is opened with 1/3 the capacity of the subway, considering the fact that the Yonge line will probably be over capacity by about 20% by the time RLL is built, does it make any sense to not build for the future, especially here?
 
Streety McCarface said:
Can someone please explain the fascination with making DRL long an RER line instead of a proper subway? We've already discussed before numerous times that running tracks in the don valley is a bad idea because of floodplain reasons, as well as the fact that the line is not direct and would take significantly longer than the Yonge line if the current alignment is not adjusted. Also, RL long is supposed to be a project that prevents overcapacity on the city's subway lines (like what we see on the Yonge line currently) from ever happening again. If the line is opened with 1/3 the capacity of the subway, considering the fact that the Yonge line will probably be over capacity by about 20% by the time RLL is built, does it make any sense to not build for the future, especially here?
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The fantasization of having the Relief Line be a GO or RER line rather than TTC gauge subway is to relief the Yonge Line, closer to the core than Union Station, and a backup line if Union Station for some reason can no longer function.

It also has the potential to allow westbound Lakeshore East/Scarborough trains to turn north if there is demand for a line like that.

So the RER Relief Line kills 2 birds with one stone, it relieves the Yonge Line, and provides the alternative alignment that the Richmond Hill Line needs to run all day service by avoiding the Don Valley.

I for one support TTC gauge subway for the Relief Line, but I don’t have a solution for the Richmond Hill Line other than to turn the rail turned park back into a rail line.

I hope I covered most of the points. Add if I missed any.
 
Leo_Chan said:
The fantasization of having the Relief Line be a GO or RER line rather than TTC gauge subway is to relief the Yonge Line, closer to the core than Union Station, and a backup line if Union Station for some reason can no longer function.

It also has the potential to allow westbound Lakeshore East/Scarborough trains to turn north if there is demand for a line like that.

So the RER Relief Line kills 2 birds with one stone, it relieves the Yonge Line, and provides the alternative alignment that the Richmond Hill Line needs to run all day service by avoiding the Don Valley.

I for one support TTC gauge subway for the Relief Line, but I don’t have a solution for the Richmond Hill Line other than to turn the rail turned park back into a rail line.

I hope I covered most of the points. Add if I missed any.
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The RER would have less frequent service and less convenient station locations, which would significantly reduce its ability to relive Yonge Line crowding
 
TheTigerMaster said:
The RER would have less frequent service and less convenient station locations, which would significantly reduce its ability to relive Yonge Line crowding
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It doesn't need to have less service. 2 to 3 minute frequencies is quite possible on main-line rail with sufficient spending, even to Union (or a nearby street). Sufficient, in this case, will not be trivial but is it over $10B?

I'm not sure how much station location would impact YRL (Yonge Relief Line) ridership outside of the core as 90%, or more, of the ridership will be arriving to the line via bus. I do agree completely that station locations downtown are a big deal. For a cost ($3B?) you could branch off the Don Valley and run along Queen with underground bilevel GO trains to a stop at Yonge & Queen.

The YRL as planned is perfectly acceptable. I'm disappointed in Metrolinx that at no time have they reported on what Richmond Hill line might produce at a similar capital cost. Ongoing maintenance of a partially at surface line is almost always less than an underground line.
 
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Streety McCarface said:
Can someone please explain the fascination with making DRL long an RER line instead of a proper subway? We've already discussed before numerous times that running tracks in the don valley is a bad idea because of floodplain reasons, as well as the fact that the line is not direct and would take significantly longer than the Yonge line if the current alignment is not adjusted. Also, RL long is supposed to be a project that prevents overcapacity on the city's subway lines (like what we see on the Yonge line currently) from ever happening again. If the line is opened with 1/3 the capacity of the subway, considering the fact that the Yonge line will probably be over capacity by about 20% by the time RLL is built, does it make any sense to not build for the future, especially here?
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It's an Urbantoronto armchair quarterback fetish thing.
 
mjl08 said:
What is the outlook of the DRL with the upcoming provincial election? I can't be alone in thinking that the Yonge extension to Richmond Hill will supersede the DRL in party platforms.
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I suspect both will be announced by the Liberals as part of their election promises.
 
Streety McCarface said:
Can someone please explain the fascination with making DRL long an RER line instead of a proper subway? We've already discussed before numerous times that running tracks in the don valley is a bad idea because of floodplain reasons, as well as the fact that the line is not direct and would take significantly longer than the Yonge line if the current alignment is not adjusted. Also, RL long is supposed to be a project that prevents overcapacity on the city's subway lines (like what we see on the Yonge line currently) from ever happening again. If the line is opened with 1/3 the capacity of the subway, considering the fact that the Yonge line will probably be over capacity by about 20% by the time RLL is built, does it make any sense to not build for the future, especially here?
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1) It would allow the branches to extend much further into the suburbs, as they would run along existing GO corridors. Connections just need to be made to the GO corridors at strategic locations (Gerrard Square and NW of Dufferin & Queen for example). To accomplish the same amount of relief with a TTC Subway, you'd need to tunnel tens of KM, at least.

2) The alignment that I propose only has it connecting with the Richmond Hill Line just north of Lawrence. South of there, it would assume the "traditional" DRL alignment into downtown. Take that line and extend it to RHC and beyond, maximizing the "relief" part of the Relief Line, by minimizing the number of people on the Yonge corridor south of RHC.

3) The branches would in effect be the local 416 service pattern of GO RER (also known as SmartTrack). If you have 3 branches on each side (Oakville, Mississauga Centre, Bramalea in the west, Pickering, Unionville, and RHC in the east) running 10 min frequencies, through the central segment you're at TTC subway level frequencies.
 
mjl08 said:
What is the outlook of the DRL with the upcoming provincial election? I can't be alone in thinking that the Yonge extension to Richmond Hill will supersede the DRL in party platforms.
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They will certainly try to pretend that the DRL is a top priority, but I have little reason to believe anything they say anymore.
 
Edward Skira said:
I suspect both will be announced by the Liberals as part of their election promises.
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You're less cynical than I am. Is this just a hunch, perhaps reasonable logic applied to the need to win, or are there some palpable signs underpinning your optimism?

For the record, I think this has to happen. But politics is a long way from logic.

Very little in the press so far on Del Duca's move, just scant mention, but it takes TVO, of all orgs to report some detail:
Big move at transportation
Steven Del Duca’s arguably controversial tenure as minister of transportation comes to an end as he takes over Duguid’s old responsibilities as minister of economic development and growth. Shifting in to replace Del Duca is Kathryn McGarry, who entered cabinet as minister of natural resources and forestry in 2016. McGarry represents Cambridge in southwestern Ontario, a region that has been on the receiving end of many Liberal transit infrastructure promises, but has yet to see many results so far.
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https://tvo.org/article/current-aff...e-ins-and-outs-of-the-liberal-cabinet-shuffle

I could certainly see signs in that choice. Perhaps Il Duce will make an announcem......wait a minute...
 
gweed123 said:
1) It would allow the branches to extend much further into the suburbs, as they would run along existing GO corridors. Connections just need to be made to the GO corridors at strategic locations (Gerrard Square and NW of Dufferin & Queen for example). To accomplish the same amount of relief with a TTC Subway, you'd need to tunnel tens of KM, at least.

2) The alignment that I propose only has it connecting with the Richmond Hill Line just north of Lawrence. South of there, it would assume the "traditional" DRL alignment into downtown. Take that line and extend it to RHC and beyond, maximizing the "relief" part of the Relief Line, by minimizing the number of people on the Yonge corridor south of RHC.

3) The branches would in effect be the local 416 service pattern of GO RER (also known as SmartTrack). If you have 3 branches on each side (Oakville, Mississauga Centre, Bramalea in the west, Pickering, Unionville, and RHC in the east) running 10 min frequencies, through the central segment you're at TTC subway level frequencies.
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I completely agree. Logic deems any other choice as unlikely, not least in that the Piper picks the tune they pay themselves to play. Or something like that. The Province is footing the bill, and now in charge of design, it will be used to satisfy their mandate first, the City's second.

I have to leave it at that, I've run into serious trouble in this string discussing exactly your proposal.
 
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